Hi everybody, I have Jo Miller back with me, she wears many hats and this time she is with me as the Managing Director of the IPTF. Now, you might notice that there has been a bit of change. The IPTF is no longer the Income Protection Taskforce, they are now the Individual Protection Taskforce. Jo is joining us to explain that instead of focusing on a specific product, they are moving towards focusing upon specific clients needs and they change and evolve over time.

We do still have quite a focus on income protection and the different tools and educational materials you can access from the IPTF, to help you advise your clients to get the best out of these products.

The key takeaways:

• The IPTF have a value added services and ASU matrix, to make your life as an adviser a bit easier
• The recent IPAW week is up and ready on their website for you to catch up with insights on advising younger clients, moving out and moving on, growing a family, life moments that make a big financial hit, and retirement 
• The IPTF have launched Airi (AI Resilience Insurance) to support advisers, with insights on social media for Wisdom Wednesdays

Next time I am going to be going through the FCAs final report on the protection insurance industry, that was published recently.

Remember, if you are listening to this as part of your work, you can claim a CPD certificate on our website, thanks to our sponsors PlannerX.

Kathryn Knowles 00:03

Hi there, everybody. I am back. We are on season 12, episode nine, and this time I have Joe Miller with me, who is the managing director of IPTF, the Income Protection Task Force, and we’re going to be giving you all the latest news from them. This is the Practical Protection Podcast. So, Joe, it’s lovely to have you back. How are you doing?

Jo Miller 00:25

It’s lovely to be back. Thank you for having me, and yeah, doing really well. Thank you. It’s a busy time of year, but yeah, I prefer to be busy, so it’s a happy time of year as well.

Kathryn Knowles 00:38

Absolutely, you know, I completely get that as well. I’ve got this thing where it’s like it’s a busy time of year work-wise, and you kind of think, right, I’m getting there, I’m getting there, and then next week’s half term, I’m like, I’m not, I’m not there. It’s, it’s all gonna go everywhere up in the air. Don’t count

Jo Miller 00:54

those chickens.

Kathryn Knowles 00:55

No, no, no, no. There’s gonna be bribery. There is gonna be iPads. I’m not gonna deny it. We do what we must do, but I have also, and I’m sure some of my readers will appreciate this. There’s a book that’s coming out. It’s a six book in a series I’m really into, and it’s a romanticy book. And we used to have been a book club together, didn’t we? We did, yes. And yeah, and the book is releasing next Tuesday. So I was just like, amazing! I’m gonna like, I’m actually gonna book a day of holiday off work. I’ve got the time, you know. Obviously, I’ve got my allowance. I was thinking, brilliant. And then I was like, oh, it’s half term. I’m not. My entire thing of being like nice and wintry on the sofa with a cuppa and a blanket is gone. And then I was like, just have to be the

Jo Miller 01:38

week after.

Kathryn Knowles 01:39

Well, I was thinking to myself, I can salvage this. I can do this. I can get this one looking after this child, so that I can go hide somewhere. And then Alan made me aware that he’s in London for the day, and I was like, “Oh well, stuff it. That’s it. It’s all gone now. There’s just no chance whatsoever. So yeah, so all my plans for next week are completely gone. But we shall go on to the reason that people are here, which is more the income protection side of things, and there has been quite a lot of stuff going on in the income protection space. You have recently had your income protection awareness week, which is IPAW, and I know a few other changes. So, so what’s been happening? How did IPAW go?

Jo Miller 02:17

Yes, that’s right. So, IPAW took place in the third week in September, and it stands for Income Protection Action Week, as you said. Oh, I said awareness.

Kathryn Knowles 02:27

Sorry, I got my word. It used

Jo Miller 02:30

to be it used to be awareness, and we changed it to action because the thinking behind that was we didn’t want people to just be aware. We wanted them to actually do something amazing as a result of watching. So it’s very action orientated in terms of pointing out the next steps that advisors watching can take, and yeah, that is a week series of free to attend webinars. Tap heads at lunchtime. We have been compared to the one show for protection. So yeah, we joined in the studio by industry experts right across the industry, and this year we also went out onto the street and found some vox pops as well with the general public, which is something we’ve wanted to do for a while. And our theme this year was the moments that matter. So each day we took a different moment, and we focused on that. So we started off the week. Our moment was the young clients that we often don’t think about, that are just starting their journey, and we often neglect them because they haven’t got that much money and they’re not got a house yet and that kind of thing, but they do have a protection need, and that’s the cheapest their income protection will ever be. So if we can have a conversation with it at that point, then all the better. So that was our first moment. We talked about our educational volunteering initiatives. So we are asking the industry to support us in going into schools. We’ve prepared all the materials that people need to go in and talk to young people, not about product, but just about planting the seeds, about having a healthy relationship with money. So that definitely featured in day one. Day two, the moment was moving out and moving on. So whether you’re renting or buying a home, you are taking on a financial commitment every month and bills and everything, all the joy that goes with it. So we we focus on clients at that stage in their life. On day three, we talked about when life gets bigger. So that might be having children. It might be becoming part of a blended family. It might be that your children have four legs and fur, but whatever it is, your income is supporting somebody else, and you have responsibilities. Thursday, our moment was the moment that. Life happens because we all know that, unfortunately, from time to time, things don’t go as planned, and that’s when protection really can prove its point. So we looked at some claim stories and how protection can support clients, and then on Friday we were very much future focused. So we looked at retirement planning and how protection and retirement planning actually do go hand in hand. And we also, with One On in the Future, talked about AI as well. I know it’s a subject that’s a bit Marmite. People either love it or hate it, but it’s here. So we talked to some advisors, insurers, and a portal about how AI can support us, and what we need to be aware of as well before we fully embrace it. Yes. So lots of lots of information in IPO. It’s all available on our website as well. If you didn’t watch it at the time, you can go back. It’s all there, and there’s lots of resources around it as well. So useful things for advisors to use. We we produce lots of educational videos and checklists and things for advisors. So they’re all there on the IPTF website. I guess the other big thing that we have been doing in the last month or so, is our value-added services matrix, which again is a resource free to use on our website, and this has basically came about because of advisor feedback, which we love. We want to know how we can be useful, and we had advisers saying to us, “I just don’t know which insurer does what and who provides what service. And if I’m looking for a particular service, is there a particular insurer that I should be talking to my clients about? So we created this matrix, and it actually has two views.

Jo Miller 06:58

So you can view it by the service provider, and then you can view it insurer by insurer, and you can click through as well. So you can get more information as you need it, as you’re having that conversation with your client. So we’ve had great feedback, as it’s only been live now for about six weeks, I think it is, and yeah, we’ve we’ve had it’s one of the most popular areas of our website already, so it’s nice to feel we’ve done something that is actually meeting a need.

Kathryn Knowles 07:30

Well, I was going to say what I think. What’s nice about it, because obviously, I mean, I can see it now as well. I’m looking back, is that it is really straightforward because when you’re looking at a lot of this information, sometimes there are so many different caveats and different things that go in it, and what’s nice is that it’s literally you’ve got some tables with yes, yes, or in a sense blank because it’s a no, which is really really nice. And I think as well it can be so. When as an advisor, I’m always really careful about things like value added services because of the fact that they are non contractual, they can change, they can be removed, and so I sometimes get asked things like, “Well, do you know? I did some. There was I was asked to do take part in some industry research recently, like, “How much weight do you put on value-added services? And and for my firm, and especially because a lot of my clients, obviously, as most people know, have some kind of risk, which makes getting the insurance slightly more tricky at times. I don’t always have that luxury of, well, do I go to this provider because of a value-added benefit on it? And so it’s really hard because for me, the value-added benefits tend to go quite low priority because of the fact that I’m just trying to just get the cover in the first place. But and and and this very nature of the fact of when I also need to look at something, it’s just like it’s just well, where is it? What you know? How am I going to see this easily? But like you say, actually, that just having a quick look on the website now, it is really really straightforward in terms of letting you know, and it’s it’s nice to see that summary as well of what each of the things do. Which again, I can see it’s like maybe a sentence that says what they do instead of again listing everything, which can feel very very daunting. Especially because we’re also strapped for time, I would think in any case as well. There’s so many inquiries, so many different things we’re all having to do, and like you say on the AI side of things, I as a firm we’re finding AI is like really, really increase the amount of inquiries we’re getting, and I think others in the industry are probably experiencing that as well. And it’s it’s really kind of like on your resources. So so another thing that again, just talking about our experience is that when we’re getting, we’ll be giving recommendations to people, and then you find that what they’ve done is they’ve put your recommendation in an AI resource, and then all of a sudden they come back with about 15 incredibly technical questions, which obviously you answer, but it’s it’s a lot of time to answer the technical questions when actually, you know, you’ve you’ve kind of already. With them in many ways, but it’s going so like in nitty gritty, and then you’ll send it back, and they’ll come back with a with pretty much the same questions, but in a slightly different wording. Whereas, and sometimes it is of the value added benefits. So to be able to just say, “Look at this page with IPTF, that gives you what you need to know. That’s really, really going to save time, which is is great to have that resource. Once you say it’s free, it’s their book market. Definitely keep it in the system.

Jo Miller 10:27

It’s designed to be, as you say, they’re non contractuals. You do need to bear that in mind, and it is a starting point. You know, insurers change things and tweak things, but this is like your your easy to find starting point, and and then you can go and check the actual detail that you need. And yeah, I mean, we find and it’s actually part of IPO. Actually, some advisors use value-added services for those clients where maybe they’ve got an exclusion on a certain area.

Kathryn Knowles 10:56

Yeah.

Jo Miller 10:56

But the value-added services means there’s still some value there for clients who you know maybe have a mental health exclusion, but they’ve got access to counseling or things like that. So I think it’s it’s well worth knowing. We’re really aware that it is another thing for advisors to talk about. You know, if you’re a mortgage or a wealth advisor, protection isn’t the main conversation you’re having. So that’s already something else to talk about, and then value-added services are something else to talk about. Yes. So hopefully this is a good summary and a starting point for advisors. We love a we love a matrix. We’ve got an ASU matrix as well. So we’ve got clients that can’t, you know, they can’t go down the traditional income protection route, then you know there’s some tools there as well. So yeah, we’re really happy with how it’s been received.

Kathryn Knowles 11:48

I think the ASU matrix is again really useful. We have something; it’s not like internal to us for our providers and things like that. But there are so many caveats and eligibility criteria with accident sickness, so it’s really easy to get the quotations and to just be like, “Oh, well, you can have it because you know, yes, you’ve got this health condition, but you can have it, kind of thing. But then the background technicalities of them are so complicated that you know, having that extra again, that support is fantastic. But I’m sure we could go on about that for quite a while, but going back to the main thing. So, IPTF Income Protection Task Force has had a rebrand and is a new kind of focus for 2027. What’s going on?

Jo Miller 12:32

Yes, so I’m wondering actually if I’m going to have to have the equivalent of a swear jar for 2027. Every time I say Income Protection Task Force. I have to put Penny in the jar,

Kathryn Knowles 12:42

yeah,

Jo Miller 12:43

because we are. We, I mean, generally we are referring to ourselves as the IPTF going forward, which we’ve always been. So in some ways, not much of a change. But actually, when we’re asked to explain what IPTF is going forward, we have changed the I in IPTF from income to individual protection task force, which may feel like a big big change and a big departure, but actually the clues have been there for some time. If you look at the sort of progression and things we’ve been doing and resources we’ve been making available, this has been part of our big plan for us. It was about when is the right time to tell the market. So yes, we are now the individual protection task force, and really, that for us has come about because if you look at the wider context of the market now and the messages that are coming out of the regulator, this isn’t a conversation about product. We should be starting with client need. If the client has a need, they have a need for protection, and that can take many forms. Sometimes it might be one product. Sometimes it might be a combination of another. Sometimes, for whatever reason it might have to be one product and not another, but they have a need and that’s the point. And really, we felt it was more appropriate to be starting with client need than being associated with one particular product. And you know, for some time now, I’ve already mentioned we’ve we have the ASU matrix. We we talk a lot about everything that goes around protection policies with value added services. So it isn’t a grand departure, but I just have to remember that I am now the individual protection task force. Well, I’ve

Kathryn Knowles 14:34

just realized I introduced it as income protection task force as that. So I’m going to make sure I get it sorted.

Jo Miller 14:41

It’s a gradual transition, so depending on the day at the moment, you’ll catch us saying both. But 2027, we are definitely sticking with individual protection task force. I will

Kathryn Knowles 14:52

make sure that it’s when I write it up. It is individual protection task force. I don’t want to get it wrong. So, so the focus next year, as you say, is going to be more about that. The whole thing. I know I’ve literally just as the podcast coming out tomorrow that I’ve done, which is like a life milestones one. I’m talking very much about that. So I’m talking about if you’re single with no kids, well, you have a need, and it’s most likely this. If you do have kids or a parent, it’s most like you know, and but then also, if you are now reaching towards the end of like your working life, this is you know. So yeah, there is always. I generally think that the majority of people I speak to is though is that there is always that need. Well, not say always. The significant majority, 95% of the time, there is that need for income protection, as at the very, very basics, you know, of everything, but it’s also the one that seems to be the almost the hardest to convince people that they actually need as well. And it’s almost like people often want life insurance when they don’t even need it, but they’re really determined to have it. And you’re like, no, you need the income protection instead. It’s really hard.

Jo Miller 16:01

Absolutely, for us. our conversations that we’ve been having through IPO and other work that we do for for a long time have talked about how do we make clients more financially resilient? How do we make them realize their financial vulnerability, and how do we, you know, talk to them about the solutions that can help them. So yeah, we’re all about resilience insurance, really, and not a specific product. And as you say, that that can be different and does look different for every client. So yeah, that’s where we are, and and you know we want to carry on as we have been doing helping advisors to have great conversations to support their clients in whatever way they need to.

Kathryn Knowles 16:50

Absolutely. So I know we saw I touched briefly on this before, and I was mentioning obviously about how we’re having some issues in terms of like the AI side of things. So again, I don’t know if other firms, I’m sure other firms are having the same as us because we’re. What’s also happening is that we’re getting sort of inquiries on AI that basically say, “I’ve also approached these 10 other brokers, kind of thing. But we’re we’re getting a lot of AI inquiries where. So I’m probably going to talk about the issues that we’re having, and you’re going to talk about a solution that you’re bringing, not necessarily for this exact thing, but it’s you know one of the issues that we’re having, and I’m seeing a lot, is that we’re getting a lot of AI inquiries where people are being really demanding, and it’s almost like what you would describe as the old kind of stuff, like the execution only kind of queries, where they’re basically they’re wanting non-advice in many ways, or the kind of the wanting advice, but they’re asking for like almost a non-advised route, and it’s you know, and we’re having to be really reactive to that. But it almost feels like we’re having to be reactive on like maybe every couple of weeks basis for how the AI engines are changing and put people are putting things forward because we’re having to say to people, fully understand you want you know from us we also we fully understand you want this. However, we’re an advice firm, so we can’t we can’t do what you’re asking. You know, if you want advice, you need to do this kind of thing. But so, if anybody else is having that kind of issue, you know, it is something that we’re all having to really respond to. And you have come up with a solution for some things, haven’t you? Because you have developed the. I’m going to probably say airy. Is it Eric? It is AI resilience insurance to support advisors. So obviously, I Alan is a massive AI fan, as everyone can probably imagine. He is so techy. He’s originally from a computer background. I am not. I am very much. I don’t want to go near this. So you’re going to be talking to both me and Alan, complete opposite scales of the AI side of things. So, how is this solution going to help me and the other advisors who are AI shy?

Jo Miller 18:47

So, yes. So, yeah, I think I think AI is one of those subjects, isn’t it? It’s it’s you either love it or you hate it, but wherever you sit, it’s there, and we’re all having to deal with it. And I think for for IPTF, it was about how can we utilize it. You know, we are a small not for profit AI to extend our reach and expand what we’re doing. So Airi is our new team member, and her name means AI resilience insurance. So there’s that resilience insurance back in there again, and she’s an AI avatar who crops up on our socials basically, and we have a slot that Airy takes every Wednesday called Wisdom Wednesday, and she basically covers topics In biovisors, so she will explain, for example, what what a mutual is. What’s the difference between a mutual and and a friendly society and you know a more traditional insurer? And then on the last Wisdom Wednesday of each month, there’s a more technical guide that we release that. Sort of what Aries been talking about, so it’s nice bite-sized content each week, and again, it’s quite a neutral voice. So things that can be easily shared if they’re they’re useful. We have also been, you know, we have noticed we’ve done some analysis ourselves, which I’m sure Alan would be very proud of. We’ve been looking at our own website in terms of how AI is using the IPTF website when people ask a question about it, so that we can make sure that there is useful information that’s providing the right answers. Because I think we’ve all probably experienced those sort of hallucinations, things. So we we are building up a very solid knowledge bank. And what’s been really interesting, actually, is that for some of our members, and we’ve shared this with all of our members, our insuring members, is that sometimes when people are asking AI about particular insurers, it’s coming to our website, and it’s getting the information from our website because of the way we have tried to optimize it to be helpful. So yes, I mean there’s plenty of us of things to master, and I think lots of of guardrails that we all need to be aware of. I think I often have conversations with advisors who are saying very similar things to to you in terms of the challenges that AI presents. In one sense, it’s allowing people to get their head around protection a little bit before they have that conversation. In the other sense, they arrive thinking they’re an expert because they’ve got this list of questions, and I think I think really for me, the answer is you know be confident in the fact that you are an advisor, as you say. You need to be you need to stress the fact that they have come to you for advice. You know, if if would you would you use AI instead of a doctor and and go out and and buy a medicine without medical advice? Well, I wouldn’t. I I want the you know the trained advice, and I think that’s the difference. You know, AI can get you so far. It can give you some pointers. It can tell you the right questions to ask, but it it can’t do everything. And actually, the real value is someone that’s done this before, someone that knows. Okay, well, if that’s your profile and your background and your medical conditions, then this is what’s likely to happen, and this is what you’re going to have to consider. So I think,

Kathryn Knowles 22:41

absolutely, you know

Jo Miller 22:42

being confident that that you have a role to play that is that is it can’t be replicated by AI in the same way. I think is really important. You know, it’s we do all need to remember that AI gets us so far and it gets us there a bit faster now, which is amazing, but it you know, I often have this, and my I’ve got two teenage sons who enjoy using AI to to make AI look silly. So they’ll ask ChatGPT to count to make every fifth number, you know, sound like a hiccup or something like that. But that’s the point with AI. You can, at the moment, you can challenge AI and get a different answer, and you can say, “I’m not sure about that. Are you sure? And they’ll say, “Well, actually, yeah, you’re right. Actually, what you need in this circumstance is a conversation with an advisor. Yes. So let’s. I think our our view is very much let’s use AI where it’s helpful, where it can, for us as a small team, can you know accelerate our work, but let’s use it where it adds value.

Kathryn Knowles 23:49

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it’s it’s really tricky because, like, one of the things that we’re doing is obviously when we’re trying to like sort through our inquiries now is that it’s almost like a mix of, you know, is this has somebody used AI and they are just asking a million questions and want everything? They like they want to know every insurer you approach, every underwriting decision, all the references, and all this kind of thing, and more. Or is it that somebody has used AI to help with their communication? Now that might be because you know it might be that English isn’t the first language. It might be we’ve had quite a few people who are autistic or have ADHD, and they’ve just said I’ve used this to try and help me structure it in the way that works well for me. Yeah, that doesn’t mean that they can’t have income protection. That doesn’t mean that they’re going to get you know silly terms or huge prices, huge exclusions. But it’s just a way of being. It’s it’s very hard because you need to be very careful that you are giving the right service and not just automatically assuming that everyone’s just trying to use a quick shortcut and obviously being mindful of those situations. But one of the things that I’ve done, I know you said about the advice side and taking onto account that you are the advisor, is that one of the things that we. Started to adopt is sort of that approach of you know we’ll give somebody our recommendation and then if they come back and then they’ll say they’ll probably say right well I want you to give me a quotation with this insurer and with this option and this option and this option with it we will then go back and sort of our approach is another firms might want to adopt this might not is that we’ll go back and say well look I’m prepared to give you another option because you know obviously you want to see a different option, but you’re actually deviating away from my advice now. So actually, I’m I’m not going to give you six different quotations here. You can have one, maybe two. You know, kind of. It just depends on the situation. You have to be reactive. You have to be reactive to the amount of insurances you’re looking at as well, but there does come a point where you just need to go. You know, I am the advisor. I need to be confident that I’ve given you the right recommendation. This is my recommendation. If you don’t want to do it, then then that is up to you. Yeah, kind of thing. But I also don’t have the time. You know, this there’s limits to these things, and obviously, as most people are probably aware, a lot of people in the protection space work on a commission rather than a fee. If you are fee based, it probably wouldn’t be as bad. But if you commission based, you have to go. Do you know what? There is only so much time and resources that I have every single time before it then starts affecting my ability to help other people as well. So you just need to. I think everybody at this moment in time probably needs to just have that kind of sit down, have a sort of like an internal kind of check of everything, sense check, and go right. What is going to be our response? So what are we going to do? And you know, most people, you know, some people will be able to just do stuff and just go. Do you know what? I’ll just start out internally. If not, then we always go back to that thing of signposting as well. If it gets too much, so we’re also doing that at times. We’re saying to people, do you know what? You, if you’re wanting all of this and you don’t advice, here’s where you can go and get this. That’s not what we would be doing. Very happy to help, but if that’s the route you want to go down, here you go, kind of thing.

Jo Miller 27:03

Yeah, and I think as an advisor as well, I think you sometimes it’s just about maybe pushing back. Sort of, can I understand why you’ve picked that insurer, or can you know if you suspect that they’ve just run this through AI, then let’s have a transparent conversation. And I do think actually, while we’re speaking about AI, that that the transparency point is really important. You know, understand how they’ve arrived at that. You know, is there a particular reason you’ve asked me to look at that insurer? Is it a recommendation from a friend, or did you find something online? If I can understand that, I can know why you’re accepted. Because if the answer is AI, then again, the the value of you as an advisor comes into play, and I think just understanding that it’s really helpful. And you know, we, as I say, we are using AI at IPTF, but we have a very clear AI policy on our website. We are very clear about what we will use AI for and what we won’t use it for. You know, nothing could ever go out without a human being reading it, fact checking it, and and it’s for that reason that you know, as I say, as the advisor, that’s where you’re really adding value. So, but just understanding how they’ve arrived with you asking those questions, I think can be quite helpful because you know if they have to say oh well ChatGPT told me yeah that’s a conversation starter in itself absolutely

Kathryn Knowles 28:31

absolutely so I know we’ve already discussed a little bit about where people can get all this information but where can people go to find out about the individual protection task force I’m making sure I’m saying that right, and things like catching up on IPO and different things. Yeah,

Jo Miller 28:46

absolutely. So the the main place I would direct people to is our website, which is iptf.co.uk, and we’ve got some main sections on our website. So under education, you will find everything IPAW from this year and from some previous years as well. We have an advisor tools section where you’ll find the matrix that I talked about, the value added services matrix. You’ll also find underwriting guides for all the insurers all in one place, calculators, vulnerability guides, glossaries, all sorts. There, we also have the Let’s Talk IP podcast as well. That’s on there, and you can also we’re we’re fairly active on social media. So LinkedIn and Instagram, in particular, you can find us. We have a YouTube channel, and we have ventured onto TikTok as well, occasionally. So that’s in the works, as it were. But Instagram and LinkedIn are definitely the the main channels at the moment.

Kathryn Knowles 29:50

Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for coming on and obviously sharing all of that information with everybody. It’s it’s just so good to know that there’s those kinds of resources. And like we say, you know, when we’re talking especially about income protection, as I’m sure every advisor knows, there’s a billion insurers. They all have a billion products with different versions, at least four different versions of each product, kind of thing. And it’s when you are accessing so many insurers, it is really, really intense. So all those things that you can provide on those and as educational toolkits on the website are just fantastic to just like really summarize and snip it down for us when we’re trying to do those sort of a quick kind of like yes no that one not that one yes that one’s brilliant kind of thing yeah so thank you for putting that together for everybody and thank you for listening everybody next time I’m going to go through the FCA’s finished report on their protection industry study. If you have listened to this as part of your work, please do feel free to go get a CPD certificate on the website. Thanks to our sponsors, Planner X, and the website is practical-protection.co.uk. Thank you so much for coming, Joe. Lovely to catch up with you.

Jo Miller 30:58

Thanks for having me.

Transcript Disclaimer:

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We often discuss health and medical conditions in relation to protection insurance and underwriting, always consult with a healthcare professional if you are concerned about any medical conditions and symptoms we have covered in any episode.