Hi everyone, we are closing off season 10 with a very personal episode, with Phil Jeynes joining me to talk about his experience of being diagnosed with bowel cancer. Last time Kate Baldry gave us brilliant insights into bowel cancer data and how out of all the claims she had looked at, no-one had anything in their own health or family medical history, that placed them at a higher risk of developing bowel cancer. Or no specific definite patterns that are currently being seen.

Phil shares with us that this was his experience too. Prior to his diagnosis Phil had none of the traditional things in his life that would make him stand out as someone that might develop bowel cancer. It was a huge shock to him and his family, and Phil talks about what it felt like to go receive his diagnosis, treatment and how he is now.

The key takeaways:

• Even if you don’t fit the usual checklist of someone that is at risk of bowel cancer, if you experience any symptoms it’s always best to see your doctor, just in case
• It can take a while for your body to recover from bowel cancer and Phil is still working on this 2 years later
• Private medical insurance can work alongside NHS services to get you the diagnosis and treatment you need, as soon as possible

This is the last episode of season 10 and there will be a little break while the summer holidays are with us. Do you have anything that you would like to see covered in Season 11? Get in touch and let me know!  

Remember, if you are listening to this as part of your work, you can claim a CPD certificate on our website, thanks to our sponsors NextGen Planners.

Kathryn Knowles  00:15

Hi everybody. We are on season 10, Episode 13, entity, I have Phil Jeynes with me. And Hi Phil,

 

Phil Jeynes  00:19

hi Kathryn.

 

Kathryn Knowles  00:20

So what we’re going to be doing today is talking very much about Phil’s personal stories. So last week, we had Kate Baldry, who was talking about early onset colorectal cancer, and Phil is here to share his side of having actually had that experience. So this is the practical protection podcast you So,

 

Kathryn Knowles  00:37

Phil, so first of all, before I go into how you are doing, I’m also very proud of myself, because I know we were talking about beforehand. I got your surname, right? Phil Jeynes (pronounced Jeans),

 

Kathryn Knowles  01:00

hard not to say Jey-nes. Even I

 

Kathryn Knowles  01:03

was saying to myself, do it this way, but inside I’m going to go completely random.

 

Phil Jeynes  01:09

You nailed it. Yeah. I spent my whole life people saying, Hello, is it Mr. Jeans? And I go no it’s Jeynes every time. So, yeah, thank you for getting it right. I don’t really mind if people get it wrong.

 

Kathryn Knowles  01:18

Well, it’s now recording so people, there’s no excuse now. People have to get it loads Exactly. How are you doing? How are things?

 

Phil Jeynes  01:29

I’m really well, thanks. Yeah, I’m enjoying the sunshine. As we speak down on the south coast, the family are all well. So like,

 

Kathryn Knowles  01:37

well, I’m in the Northeast on the coast and and I am wearing strappy top for once. It’s actually quite sunny, but I do think we might be getting a bit of a C threat, which is very, very sad, but I don’t want to see for it, because it’ll make it a really awesome lovely and cold. Not lovely and cold. It’ll make it cold. But anyway, let’s get on to the main side of things. So obviously, you’ve spoken quite openly in the industry and lots of places about having had cancer recently, what that’s been like for you? So I think what’d be really nice is for obviously, we are gonna be talking about that, but it’d be nice for people just to learn about Phil. And who is Phil? What have you been up to? And sorry, just what you do now online?

 

Phil Jeynes  02:19

Yeah. So I’ve, I guess I’ve grown up in the in the life insurance industry. So my, my whole career has been in our little bubble. I started out as a mortgage and protection broker back in the back in the last century, Kathryn and and then moved on to the the insurer side in the early to mid 2000s and then I’d held roles with firms like vitality, although it was pre protect back in those days, I was employee number five at underwrite me, helping them get get traction in the market. And then I was at reassured for five years, the UK’s largest independent life insurance broker, sort of developing their proposition. And I joined MetLife in February, so I’m still feeling a little bit like the new boy, but learning most of people’s names now at a massive, great global insurer. So yeah, that all of my roles have been kind of industry facing in the life insurance market, which is why I kind of pop up here and there and stand on stages, occasionally in my shiny suit, and then away from work. We started our family quite young, so both my boys, in fact, my youngest turns 20 last week, so I’ve got two, two proper adult sons, and we also had our 25th wedding anniversary a couple of weeks ago as well. So I’m feeling old at the moment, but

 

Kathryn Knowles  03:44

not all. So I was gonna say I turned 40 last month, actually, a month ago today, I turned 40. Thank you. Congratulations. There’s like people in my team, like one of my team. She was so excited, bless her, because we’re quite close. And she was so she was like, oh my god, we going to be in our 30s together for a month, because she just turned 30, and she was so excited for a month we’ll be in our 30s together. And I’m still thinking, My word I’m a decade older than you. I can’t believe this. And I actually found I feel quite empowered being 40. I think, like, everyone’s just like, Oh, she’s 40. She knows what she’s doing and knows what to mess with her, and it’s

 

Phil Jeynes  04:22

I feel, I feel, I feel the same. I’ve never been particularly bothered about my age, I guess because we had kids so young that then you start, yeah, your birthday is irrelevant anyway, isn’t it? Because it’s like, it’s all about the kids milestones, but, but yeah, I feel like when I left reassured, which is around Christmas time, I was sort of reflecting on it, and I feel like I’m coming into the sort of second half of my career, I guess, you know, it was a while doing a bit life, really, yeah, so I’ve kind of done the early stage of my career. I’ve raised my kids, and now it’s into, you know, I think I’ve got stuff to offer the industry, as well as developing myself, but also I’ve got stuff to offer, you know, outside of work as well. Because, yeah, I don’t have to be you. Burying kids, to football practice and whatever else you spend your 20s and 30s doing

 

Kathryn Knowles  05:05

is intense. We’re so shattered, but I’m sure that’s it is just never ending.

 

Phil Jeynes  05:13

Oh yes, yeah, exactly when I get older,

 

Kathryn Knowles  05:18

because I still worry just as much. But yeah, when you say about having 20 I can’t imagine that my eldest my eldest is going to turn 14 in September. But he’s desperate at the moment because he’s almost my height and I’m the tallest. I’m slightly taller than Alan, so it’s just everything. And then he keeps sliding up next to me, and it’s like he just, and then I have to just stand properly, makes me do my posture right? And then he’s just grumbles away because it goes away is, is those, it’s almost six foot. He’s almost there, but

 

Phil Jeynes  05:46

I’ve got, I’ve got, yeah, so my youngest is over six foot, so he can with over me, and my eldest is about my height, about half an inch taller. So, yeah. So I’m not

 

Kathryn Knowles  05:54

sure how I feel about it, but at the same time that I’m just like, Oh, he’s my big, burly guy. He’ll look after he can give me a piggy back.

 

Phil Jeynes  06:04

This is the thing I get picked up by my kids now, which is a, it’s a, an alarming situation, but, yeah, no, it’s nice, okay?

 

Kathryn Knowles  06:11

And so obviously, lovely to hear about you, but we are here to talk about you having been diagnosed with cancer. So

 

Phil Jeynes  06:19

let’s, let’s get negative. Come on,

 

Kathryn Knowles  06:22

people have come here to learn about your cancer diagnosis, and we’re just giving away about children’s hikes and things like that. So I suppose the key thing is, because yours was an early onset cancer, I believe is that correct? Yep, and yeah, what was kind of like happening? You know? I know that you are really quite fit, you know, and you’re generally very healthy. What kind of things were happening, you know, in terms of that run up to the diagnosis, what was making you think something’s not really playing as it should be?

 

Phil Jeynes  06:56

Yeah? So let’s get, let’s get gynecological quickly. Yeah, you’re right. I was, you know, one of those people that spent my latter half of my 30s and early 40s trying to look after their health. You know, I guess a couple of decades in the life insurance industry will will do that to you, because, you know, all you’re talking about all day is, is illness and death. So you kind of, you feel a bit hypocritically, not looking after yourself. So, yeah, I was in, I would say, very good shape for a guy in his mid 40s. And what’s nice about when you get an illness is you get a lot of compliments from doctors and nurses. So quite a lot of them said, Oh, you’re, you know, you’re in good shape for a man of your age. And you’re a fit guy, so you’ll be alright. And you sort of, you know, weirdly, you feel better about yourself. So, so, yeah, I was, I was definitely very active, very fit and healthy, regular runner, gym goer, you know, pretty much at my fighting weight, you know, I was in, I was in good nick. I’d had a very, very lucky life up until that point, never been ill, you know, at all really, never been in hospital for any anything. Never broken a bone, even so, you know, not someone with a background of poor health. I had had a couple of bowel surgeries because I’d had a routine operation that didn’t go according to plan, and it had a few complications, which over, over the the couple of years leading up to my cancer diagnosis, had seen me, you know, seeing a couple of consultants. So, so that was the only kind of minor to major thing that had gone on, but, but I guess, because that was in the bowel area, I was a bit more hyper vigilant of that area of my body than than perhaps people would normally be. And so then coming up towards the end of 2023, I noticed some blood in my in my stools. It kind of little bit at first, and you think, yeah, is that something? Oh, is that just, yeah, where’s that come from? Yeah. Kind of see if that happens again. And then it happens again. And then there was a couple of times where it was, you know, it was an alarming amount of blood. So you’re like, Okay, this is, this is clearly something fairly major, but, and it’s not going to go away on its own. In my mind, I’m thinking, is this related to the, you know, to the stuff I’ve had going on, that it was very different? So I thought probably not. And I was feeling right as rain. I was, you know, probably the healthiest I’ve been for a long time, very, very, you know, active and go to the gym a few times a week, and all the rest of it. So I’m thinking, this is probably not something serious, but I should go and get it looked at. So I’ve spoken about this a few times, but, you know, when linking it back to our industry and the importance of insurance and stuff, I was at protection review, which is an annual event in our industry that I’ve been to for. I don’t know as long as it’s been running, frankly, probably 10 or 15 years now, and in probably, I can’t remember who was talking on stage, but they obviously hadn’t captured my attention. So I was I thought I’m going to go online and book a virtual GP appointment through my Bucha. Per private medical cover, and, yeah, but booked in to see a doctor through the phone. We agreed to do it at kind of like four o’clock that day. So actually, as it was, I was just checking into my travel lodge in between the conference and the awards in the evening, when, when we had this support, I was like, Oh, hang on, I’m just going to get in my room. So, so we had this conversation, you know, explained that, explained that I was seeing some blood. They said, Yeah, definitely, definitely, get that checked out. Referred me to a consultant locally. I saw him just before Christmas, and he said, Yeah, let’s, let’s get it looked at. You know, the sensible thing is to get a colonoscopy and see what’s going on in there. But yeah, was, was pretty sure it would be something inconsequential. Because, you know, I’ve got no family history of of cancer, certainly not bowel cancer, not overweight and although, you know, knocking on a bit, not old enough to be in the kind of danger zone for that type of cancer. So, so he was pretty sure we’re going to have a look in here, find that there’s, you know, something odd going on in there that will need treatment, but, you know, it won’t be anything untoward. Had the colonoscopy in the February and immediately knew it was cancer, because although, if anyone’s had a colonoscopy or any procedure like that, they don’t put you out, but they give you a kind of sedative to make you nice and Dopey. So it’s a weird sensation. It’s a bit like being drunk, I guess, in that you have these moments of lucidity, and then, and then there’s bits you can’t remember. And in a moment of lucidity, I could see the screen, you know, but showing what the camera was seeing inside me. And I could see this thing he was taking snippets off, and obviously, with a with a vaguely, with a vague medical knowledge, through, through, you know, working in life insurance. I knew, I knew that what that was, so I said to him, I said to him, in my dopey state, that’s not supposed to be there, is it? Yeah, he didn’t, he didn’t engage in conversation at that point, but, but I’ve got a very clear recollection of that. And then, and then, you know, that’s a real experience of, you know, what every case study that I’ve ever seen or heard in our industry talks about, that you get taken into this room, the doctor comes in with a kind of sensible look on his face. There’s a nurse in the corner with a box of tissues. And they, you know, they say, you know, is someone here with you, and, yeah, you know, all of that stuff. So it was, it was, it was, it was kind of an out of body experience, really. And I found myself thinking, Oh, I’m a case study. You know, it was quite Yeah, I guess, because mentally, I’d already processed it that I’ve got cancer because I’d seen it. So I was like, you know, I was one step ahead of them, I guess. And, you know, he said, Yep, because at that point they don’t use the word cancer. They say there’s something that we don’t know the look of. We’ve taken some biopsies of that. We’re going to send that away to see what it is, and then then we’ll assess what we need to do. I can’t remember how the rest of that conversation when, but my concern at that point was more, how’s my wife feeling about that? Who do we tell? What point do we tell people? So you start processing, I guess. Well, I started processing, what the next steps are you going to? Practical, you know, to, if we’re in the right place for this, aren’t we? We go, you go into practical mode of right? What do we do? How do we do it? Because you don’t want to, you know, set people off if it actually it comes back, and it’s like, oh, this is just a weird polyp that you’ve given people the impression you’re death all of a sudden. Anyway, the results of that came back confirmed it was cancer. They were very optimistic that it was early stage, that it had been caught quickly, that it hadn’t spread, from what they could see. But obviously, wouldn’t know until they got in at a proper rummage around. So although all of that process was done through private medical through Bucha, the minute it was diagnosed as cancer, they flicked you, well, they flipped me back to the NHS, because in certainly where I live anyway, the NHS turnaround time for dealing with that type of cancer was much quicker than Bucha, so it was two weeks. So between diagnosis and operation was, yeah, a couple of weeks. He was kind of, when do you want it done? I said, Well, yeah, you know, today in any kind of laughed, but said, Okay, well, let’s get the diaries out. And I booked in as soon as I could. And, yeah, I had a surgery in March, got the all clear a couple of weeks later, after the biopsies had come back, that, you know, it hadn’t spread, and therefore no treatment was necessary. So, you know, I always say when people talk about their cancer journey that mine felt more like a cancer city break, because it was kind of like I didn’t have camp, you know, I didn’t know I had cancer. Then I did, and then I did, you know, within the space of a few weeks, and I never felt ill. I literally, I was in the gym doing a high intensity class the night before my surgery, because I knew I wouldn’t be going back to the gym for a while. So I was like, Okay, I’ll

 

Kathryn Knowles  14:50

get a workout in. Sounds like something? I’d just be moping in a corner somewhere.

 

Phil Jeynes  14:58

Yeah, I just literally didn’t feel it. If there hadn’t been blood coming out of me in a in a manner that it wasn’t supposed to I wouldn’t have known anything was wrong. And that’s the scary part. I think I was very, very lucky to have had that very obvious symptom. Because, you know, the thing with any cancer, but particularly colon bowel cancer, is, the longer it is allowed to stay in place, the harder it is to operate on, the more it’s you know, if it spreads in that region, it’s not curable. It’s treatable. You know, people live, live, live, long and happy lives whilst being treated for it. But it’s not curable. You’ve got to get it early. So I was very lucky that, yeah, it presented in that way. Say

 

Kathryn Knowles  15:35

that sounds like it was a lot in a very, very short period of time. I love the fact that you went straight into almost work mode as well. And was just like, I’m a case study now, like, I’ve been able to share my story with people. That’s what my mind would do as well. I’d be like, right, practical. I can do this. Let’s get cover on the phone, or health and protection somebody like that, and sort of get it followed up and everything. But is this sort of like anything in terms of, I mean, obviously fantastic as well, that it was caught so early, like you say, if it was, it hadn’t had that chance to spread anywhere else, and things like that. Because I think that is one of the key scary things as well with bowel cancer, isn’t it? A lot of the time it’s be by the time it’s caught, it has actually gotten quite intense in terms of what it’s doing in the location it’s in, and it’s potentially gone elsewhere as well. So, so brilliant.

 

Phil Jeynes  16:27

Yeah, you’ve got a lot of gubbins around that area. And there’s a, there’s a, it’s easy for a cancer to, unfortunately, to spread out, and that makes an operation just perfectly complicated. So, yeah, I was very lucky, and

 

Kathryn Knowles  16:37

also for you as well. So I mean, my completely different, but my dad was Parkinson’s, I speak for that quite a bit, and he had to have bowel surgery. And it really looks you up, actually, about surgery, because the basically, they said to us when he was gonna have his bowel surgery, that basically the doctor said the bowel doesn’t like to be touched. You kind of think it does not want to be touched. It does not want to be messed about with. And we’re going to be significantly messing about with this. And you know, it really has been quite intense for him afterwards, in terms of sort of things, he’s had to adapt because, I mean, he ended up with the stoma, and you know that for him has been very, very hard to manage. But I think that could also be a part of Parkinson’s as well. But I think probably, has there been anything for you, kind of like after the operation, or follow on that sort of you’ve thought a bit so it’s a bit of a some sort of handle,

 

Phil Jeynes  17:31

yeah, because of the previous underlying bowel problem that I had when I had the surgery to remove the cancer that The surgeon also went in to try and tidy up what gone on before. So I had this. So what should have been a very small operation ended up being quite a major one. Is a tower surgery. So, and weirdly, the cancer wasn’t the difficult bit. So, so it makes my case study aptitude slightly lower because, because it’s not a clean story, but yeah, that’s the way the world works. But yeah, so I had a major bowel surgery, and I ended up with stoma as well. So empathize totally with with your dad, a temporary one in my case, because it was a case of, yeah, we’ve done a major surgery to bowel. Let’s give it some time to recover without, you know, needing to work. But yeah. And clearly I was warned beforehand that that was a likelihood. And, you know, they they mark the area on your abdomen where it’s going to be, and all that kind of stuff. It’s, again, quite a surreal experience. And you’re right, the bowel, I guess, like most parts of the body, I always think, if you have a like a knee operation, your knee is never going to be back to 100% you know, if it’s a major operation, but it’s going to be better than it was. Hopefully we’re going to solve the problem. The difficult psychological thing for for me, I guess, was there wasn’t anything wrong with my bowel. It was working fine. Thanks. So, you know, it’s not like I was having this problem that was causing me this pain and all right, well, it’s not going to be 100% but 90% is better than it was, you know, I was at, you know, 90 something percent. So get me back to their thanks. And you know, you have to adjust to the fact that’s never going to happen. You know, it’s always going to be, you know, less comfortable than it was before, but you’re not going to be dead from it. So, you know, suck it up. So yeah, so I had the stoma fitted in the March. I had the operation again, very lucky to have the Bucha cover, because my understand reversal waiting times of the NHS run into years, so I would be sitting here still with it, in all likelihood, even though I don’t need it. So I had the reversal in July, which, again, was another not inconsequential surgery, and a few days in hospital recovering from that, whilst your bowel goes, Oh, you want me to work again? Do you okay? You know, so it’s just a bizarre, bizarre situation. And yeah, so that was by far the hardest period was because, weirdly, as I say, I was never ill, so running up to the March when I had the surgery and had cancer, yeah, I felt right as rain. And then you. Come around from surgery, and you’ve got this new body part, and, you know, and you feel like, we feel like, pretty ropey, to not feel worse, actually, in

 

Kathryn Knowles  20:08

everything, you feel worse you went in, and somehow that was very strange around for us. Yeah, and, and

 

Phil Jeynes  20:17

it’s a double edged sword, because although, as I said at the start, you know, doctors were saying, look, it’s good news that you’re fit and healthy and not overweight, because it means we can do a major surgery on you and you’ll recover. We’re happy to do it. But I didn’t have any fat to lose, you know, I really was walking around at a very healthy, happy weight, and I’ve done, you know, have been working in the gym to achieve that. So, then when you’re in a situation where you can’t eat properly, and, you know, you can’t absorb calories in the way that you should, you know, I lost weight that I didn’t have to lose, and so I looked iller than I was. You know, people would see me and I’d see their face go, oh my god, yeah, you can tell he’s had cancer. Nothing to do with the cancer, it was to do with the fact that I just wasn’t getting our calories in. And, you know, I’d lost that half stone, which I didn’t have to lose anyone. There’d been points in my life, if I’d lost a half stone, I’d look much better for it. This wasn’t one of those points. I looked gaunt and I didn’t adapt to the stone, but my body didn’t adapt to the stoma well at that point. So I was feeling very light headed all of the time. I blacked out a few times at home because, and it’s purely because I wasn’t getting enough calories in at that point, my body wasn’t absorbing the calories properly. So getting the stoma reversed was a big step forward, and that was in the July so, So ever since then, it’s just been a gradual process of, you know, adapting to my bowel as it is now what I can and can’t do again. Back to, if you’d had a knee surgery, it would be, how, how quickly can I get back to jogging? How quickly can I get back to running? What is it like? What is it not like? When do I need to rest? When do I need to ice it? You know, it’s a bit like that without just a slightly more complex

 

Kathryn Knowles  21:54

area. Then you are quite back to how you were beforehand. Are you still able to go to the gym and do you hit sessions and things like that?

 

Phil Jeynes  22:05

Not quite definitely. Yeah, physically, there’s nothing it’s stopping me doing now, but I don’t want to be doing too much in the gym in terms of cardio, because I don’t want to lose fat back on. So, so, yeah, and, and also, you can’t really, do you know, weight gaining and your Muscle Gaining, because you’re not getting enough protein in so, so, so, no, not quite. And I can’t eat as a as I would like to. I can’t eat big meals. I can’t eat rich foods, or I can, but there’s consequences, you know? So, so just have to be a lot more mindful of that sort of stuff than you have been in the past. Again, pretty, pretty minor stuff. So I would say, like, in terms of what is stopping me doing, it is pretty minimal. Now I can work normally, you know, behave normally all the rest of I just have to be very I have to think more carefully about my food intake in a day and where I’m going to be in. Yeah,

 

Kathryn Knowles  23:05

yeah. Aerosmith, I know, with with my dad, I was just thinking, you know, his diet massively changed. I mean, no offense, he didn’t always have a healthy step diet. Still have horrendous but he didn’t have the healthy stuff diets, obviously, being where we are. Loves fish and chips, so, you know, the stuff like that, you know, really kind of reduced, as you say, just that ability to absorb the nutrients, and for him as well. And this is something obviously we didn’t realize for a while, is that, you know, for him, with his Parkinson’s, actually absorbing medication. So much of that happens in the bowel that, you know, it has to massively adjust his medications, because he just, he wasn’t able to absorb as much of it, so that was a bit of a shock, too. But I think, you know, obviously, thank you so much for sharing your experience and then, and obviously what you’ve been through. I suppose, if there was anything that you could think of that you’d wish that you’d known, kind of pre diagnosis, or potentially in the middle of when it was all happening, or afterwards, is there anything that you kind of like pearls of wisdom that you feel that you could share with people? I mean, the very obvious one is, make sure you get critical illness cover, private medical insurance, things like that, have as much as you can to hand. Yeah, yeah, if you’re lucky

 

Phil Jeynes  24:14

enough to be able to get some private cover, do it? The NHS is incredible. You know, it’s an exaggeration for me to say it saved my life, but it’s not too much of an exaggeration. And it certainly saves the lives of other people on a regular basis. So I love it, but it is not coping. You know, I’ve had, I’ve had a few stays in the NHS of the last couple of years, and I haven’t enjoyed them at all. And you can, it’s just creaking. So if you can afford to get private cover, even if that means giving up something else in your life in order to do it, then I would say, do it. You will not be sorry that you did it. So that’s, as you say, a fairly, fairly obvious one for you and me the other. Things would be, again, cliches, but the number of people that have come up to me since I spoken about, you know, my diagnosis and treatment who have said, Oh, actually, I did have this thing that I was, you know, procrastinating or seeing the doctor about, and, you know, I’m going to give myself a talking to and go and do it. So you’ve got to keep saying it. If you see something that’s not right, go and see a doctor. It doesn’t have to be as alarming as blood in your toilet after being there like I had. It could be something much more minor, yeah, just go and get it looked at. You know, it’s so easy to do I’ve had now, as I’m sure your dad has, you know, I’ve had cameras and fingers and, God knows what, in pretty much every orifice. You get over that very quickly. And the doctors and nurses are phenomenal, and they don’t care. It’s their job, you know, you kind of have this weird thing of, Oh, this must be awful for you. That’s it. That’s, you know, it’s what they do. You know, they want to do it. They want to help you. So get over yourself. Get it, get out. You know, go, go and get checked out whatever it is, because catching stuff early is absolutely the key. And then I think the more kind of, less nuts and bolts observation. I think if there’s one thing I regret slightly, or I think I was too blase about it was the mental effect. So, yeah, I’m a mature, you know, father of two adults, with a with a with a pretty, you know, reasonably success, successful career. I’m very stable, you know, and I’m able to, I felt perfectly able to cope with this. I knew what was happening all the time. I could intellectualize it very easily. I could go into practical mode of what I needed to do very quickly. And, you know, I had a good, positive frame of mind that when things weren’t nice, you know, when I had soups in places I didn’t particularly want tubes that you knew that was going to be temporary, that when I had a stoma that I, you know, didn’t particularly want, that, you know, fine. People live with these things for their entire lives. So, you know, who am I to moan about having it temporarily? You know, I was always able to put myself in the right frame of mind and not wallow in self pity and whatever. However, you know, I went back to work within a couple of weeks, you know, from home and you know, not, not, you know, full working days, but I was back on doing my emails and doing teams, calls and stuff, within two weeks of having had major surgery, and that’s not because my employer asked me to do that. In fact, they repeatedly asked me whether I was sure I wanted to. And in retrospect, I don’t think I gave myself any space to just decompress on the whole thing, yeah, and give myself some space and some time. So I’ve seen some negative outcomes of that mentally, not not major, but things that I’ve thought, Huh, where’s this feeling coming from? You know, I’ve never had this one before, and I think, in retrospect, the advice I’d give someone else going into it, even if, like me, they felt fit and healthy, they were lucky that it was minor, and they felt that they were coping Absolutely. Tickety boo, I’d say still take as much time off as you possibly can. You know you will find your family, your employers, everybody else, incredibly supportive of you doing that, and you will not be sorry that you’ve taken that time off to just mentally process what’s going on. Because I think that’s the bit. I think

 

Kathryn Knowles  28:40

that’s that’s incredibly insightful. Thank you. And I can completely appreciate I think there’s a lot of people that would do similarly to yourself, in the sense of right and feeling okay. I don’t want to just sit here, yeah, kind of thing. I want to be doing something and and I think it is very, very hard sometimes to do that, though, isn’t it? Because it’s almost like if I don’t do anything, I’m actually going to have to really process, sort of like everything, and entertain myself somehow differently. So

 

Phil Jeynes  29:10

yeah, and also, there’s this weird psychological thing of, I don’t want to be seen as being ill, because I’m not ill. I feel fine. So, you know, I don’t I don’t want people pitying me and thinking and saying, Oh, how are you feeling today? And and then you have to sort of give yourself a slap and go, Well, these people are being really nice, and they’re asking that because they care, you know. But, yeah, but there’s a weird psychological thing of, yeah, no, I’m not ill. I’m not ill, I’m absolutely fine, you know. And I can get through this, and I can just bounce back. And that’s probably, that’s true. I have I’ve got through it. I’ve bounced back. So it’s great. Sound like Alan Partridge, I’m bouncing back. But there’s no harm at all in just saying, Yeah, but this is still a pretty nasty experience. And, you know, I owe it to myself to have a few weeks, maybe a few months, doing whatever I want to do, you know, not having to do work. So, yeah, that’s. My biggest regrets, probably probably pushing it to putting it too strongly, but my biggest advice, I give to somebody else,

 

Kathryn Knowles  30:07

and that’s brilliant, and I think a lovely way to to end the podcast as well. Sorry finishing with your your go to tips, in a sense. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing and your experience with all of us.

 

Phil Jeynes  30:20

You’re welcome. Nice to talk to you as always. Far too long since

 

30:22

we’re out of chance. It’s a very, very long time since I’ve been to London and had chance to properly chat to people, but it’ll happen again at some point. So obviously, thank you everybody for listening, and next time will be season 11. So I’m still having a think about what we’re going to be covering, and if you’ve got any ideas, please do feel free to get in touch and let me know what you’ve asked me to cover. If you’ve listened to this as part of your work, please do visit the website. Practical hyphen protection.co.uk. To get your CPD certificate. Thanks to next gen planners. Thank you, Phil. Speak to you soon.

 

Phil Jeynes  30:54

Cheers. Kathryn

 

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