IBTS – Updates to HIV Underwriting

Hi everyone, we have a brilliant inbetweenysode for you with some updates to insurance options for people living with HIV. It has been a long time coming but the past 3 years have seen big steps being made to improve options for protection insurance for people that have a diagnosis of HIV.

The key takeaways:

  • There are sometimes options for standard rates for life insurance, for people living with HIV.
  • Personal critical illness cover and income protection for people living with HIV is here!
  • Group insurance can often offer valuable protection insurance without the need for medical underwriting at application or point of claim for life insurance and income protection, up to specific free medical underwriting limits.

Next time I will be be back with Matt Rann and we will be talking about family medical history, why it’s so important in protection insurance applications and why it’s different for men and women.

Remember, if you are listening to this as part of your work, you can claim a CPD certificate on our website, thanks to our sponsors Octo Members.

If you want to know more about how to arrange protection insurance, take a look at my 13 hour CPD Protection Insurance in Practice course here and 1 hour CPD Protection Competency Exam here.

Kathryn Knowles (00:06):

Hi everybody. I am here with an in-between episode for season seven of the Practical Protection Podcast. I’m gonna be going through underwriting updates that we’re seeing in the space for people that are living with HIV.

(00:28):

So everybody, just a very, very quick disclaimer. It is currently half term for me here, and that means that my 11 year old, eight year old and five year old are in the room next to me being bribed by two grandmas and is also a almost two year old cockapoo that’s running around and banging and making noises. But hopefully with the way that my mic works and everything like that, we won’t be able to hear them and there is sufficient, um, iPad batteries and chocolates to distracted children from, uh, coming and clawing at me. So in terms of updates, we have had phenomenal updates in the, uh, world of HIV underwriting. The first time that we actually an episode in this was in our first season, I believe, which was in 2020. And so in just for insurance, a relatively short period of time. So in two and a half years or so, um, even shorter than that because things have been trialing for a bit and there’s been some pilots, um, going on, um, pilots going on with different companies and different things.

(01:24):

We’ve seen some really, really big differences. So we used to have it where we, we’d reached a stage about, you know, say about 2020 where for life insurance we were having options where there was maybe a loading on a policy, so that’d be a premium loading, premium increase because someone was living with h hiv. Um, but it was as a small loading compared to what insurers can do, some conditions, some disclosures, uh, and then we were going all the way through to some insurers having larger premium increases, potentially saying, well, we’ll only ensure you for this amount of time. Um, and you know, it, it was a bit awkward at times trying to sort of tally up what the world was seeing and saying in terms of H I V, in terms of the treatments and the longevity of the lives of people who are now living with the condition when they are receiving their full treatment.

(02:15):

And what we were seeing in terms of the, what the insurers could offer and in terms of critical illness cover and in income protection in the personal space, options were incredibly limited. We had, for the critical illness, we had the guaranteed acceptance options, uh, which are very useful for some people. Um, but they would, uh, have a smaller claim set, uh, listed conditions than you would see in a usual critical illness contract, which is usually, I would say at least, let’s say on average, probably about 60 conditions or more in a typical one. And with the guaranteed acceptance ones, it would be less than 10 conditions that you’d be covered for. It would still be covered for your key things such as cancer, heart attack, stroke, and a number of other things. But with those policies, with the guaranteed acceptance, they do come with exclusions for preexisting conditions.

(03:02):

So even though we were did have those three key things that cancer had attack, stroke covered, there was potentially some exclusions there in relation to the H I V and in terms of income protection, we had started to see some movement and some better options. But generally that in the personal space, I’d say in all these things. In terms of the personal space, that was typically restricted more to accidents and sickness cover, which is where it would be a maximum 12 month claim period. And again, there’ll be exclusions relating to pre-existing conditions. And now we’re fast forwarding to now and we have completely different, um, options available for people and uh, I’m gonna go through all of them. It’s just gonna be a short episode, so don’t worry, it’s just gonna be a bit of a quick fire in terms of things that we can do for people.

(03:51):

So if we’re looking in terms of life insurance, so I’m gonna talk about firstly from the personal and personal life insurance policies and also business life insurance policies as well. So we are at a stage now where we might actually be able to get standard terms of cover for somebody, uh, for life insurance, for somebody who is living with H I V. So I’m saying standard terms of cover, that means that there’d be no exclusions on the life insurance related to the H I V. There’s also be no premium increases. Now, while that might be available, there are still certain things that the insurers look for in terms of being whether or not they can, sorry, offer that or whether or not there would still potentially be a premium increase on the policy. So the key things as an advisor or as somebody who is living with h HIV and wanting to know what they can do in terms of the UK life insurance market, the key things that the insurers are going to want to know is how old the person is now and how old they were when they were diagnosed.

(04:45):

So somebody’s age, an age of diagnosis can really determine whether or not the, the, the policy is going to be, it’s what’s known as a standard premium or potentially what we maybe call as rated or say more, more clearly, less jargony, the be it an increase to the premium. There are a number of other things too. So they’d like to know how quickly someone has, uh, started their medication, whether they were diagnosed in the uk, um, the CD four count. Now that is something that’s really interesting at the ME Inus. Um, beaver, which is a British H HIV association, have given guidance to the, um, specialists, um, in h HIV in the uk that if the viral load, which is another reading, sorry, I know, I’m sorry, going through a lot of medical terms here, but the viral load is something that, um, lets the, the viral load, lets the medical people, let’s the insurers know let’s the person know how active the virus is within their body.

(05:42):

So the viral load is usually when it’s the fuller treatment is in place and the person’s able to respond well to the treatment, it’d be known as undetectable. And what Beaver have said is that if the viral load is undetectable and stays undetectable, then there’s no need to repeat what’s known as the CD four count. And the CD four count is something that everybody has, and it’s all to do with how many white blood cells there are in your body. And the, the higher the number, the greater the amount of white blood cells so that those fighting powers are for infections and things like that. So really, um, the insurers like to see really that the viral alert would be undetectable and that the CD four count would usually be at least above 350. But a difficulty that we are seeing as advisors and when we’re trying to do the, um, the applications for people is that, you know, clearly with the guidance from the authority body, h HIV specialists aren’t necessarily checking the CD four count levels anymore.

(06:40):

If somebody’s bible order isn’t undetectable now that is currently causing a little bit of trickiness when we are applying for life insurance. Um, because the insurers and the way that they’re set up in terms of their underwriting, their manuals, their philosophies, they do like to see what that CD four count counts at the moment. Obviously we might see some change, but you know, it, it can just cause sort of like a bit of extra questioning. So if somebody has had that CD four count, uh, measured and checked in the last six months, that can really help again, towards the terms that could be available for life insurance. Now, a really important thing for advisors to know and for anybody who’s living with h to know is that the insurers are not, and, and an advisor, we shouldn’t ever be asking how the H HIV V was contracted.

(07:26):

It’s nothing to do with the applications, nobody’s asking those questions. So if anybody is living with h HIV and listening to this, please be, uh, hopefully there’s a bit of comfort there and knowing that no, nobody’s gonna ask you about that information. If it’s something that you want to talk about with the advisor, sometimes we do have people who speak in depth about the situations that they have been in, then that is absolutely fine. But from an advisor point of view, from an assure point of view, they wouldn’t be asking that. I say that, um, the only time that it can sometimes come into the, um, question set is that we do in life insurance policies generally need to ask about anything to do with drug use within certain timeframes. And so if the H I V had been, um, contracted, um, during drug use, then that could be something that, um, comes up in the question set.

(08:13):

But it’s, it’s not something that we would be directly asking. It might just be that there is seen to be a bit of a connection there, but that is the, the only thing that could potentially be seen as a connection if that had been, um, the events that had led to the diagnosis. The other things that an advisor and some with HIV, um, should be aware of is that when you often go through the life standard life insurance applications, there are obviously certain sets of questions that will come up, but not necessarily all the questions that are gonna be asked in terms of being able to get the insurance view. So that’s one of the reasons that me and my team, we’ve worked really closely with underwriters a very long time to know what we need to ask to give you a really good idea from the start, from our research to be able to tell you what kind of terms you might be able to get and the terms are essentially what price you’ll be paying for things like the life insurance.

(09:04):

And there are certain things that you know, can be, um, that can pop up. So, um, so of the, something that doesn’t usually come up in the question set a standard would be have you had recurrent pneumonia? But that would be something that me and my team would probably tend to ask is, you know, along the lines, have you had anything like any infections, any recurrent infections to do with, you know, the breathing or anything like that just because that is something that the insurers would potentially be asking your GP or your specialist, um, in, in terms of their past. The other thing as well as any kind of linked conditions, so there is a cancer known as Capsi Sarcoma. Now that’s not to say that somebody with living with HIV V is going to develop that cancer, but it is one that is potentially linked to H HIV V diagnosis.

(09:47):

So it’ll be something that we would generally asked just to make sure we’ve got a really, really clear picture from the start. When I was saying there about the, the insurer maybe won’t speak to your GP or your specialist usually with, um, insurance applications for people living with H I V, what the insurer will do is ask the see report from your medical specialist. Now, not everybody’s GP due to data protections is very important for advisors to be aware of as well. Um, and for anybody who would to maybe try and apply for life insurance direct with an insurer, it’s quite important for you to be aware of this as well. If the GP is unaware of the diagnosis of H HIV V, it’s really important to make sure that um, the advisor knows that the insurer knows because then what they can do is they can adapt their process so that they will only speak with the HIV specialist and then that means that that confidentiality can be maintained.

(10:39):

If there’s any advice out there who unsure about that, please do feel free to reach out to me. We can discuss our process that we have at Kira just so that um, you have that bit of extra protection for yourself and your client. Um, so if anybody listening is different with H I V, you know, there are steps that can be taken to, to protect that confidentiality of your diagnosis if that is something that you are obviously in a position of wanting to maintain and keep. So in terms of life insurance, personal and business life insurance, that is kind of where we are. So there’s lots of things to know, but the important thing is, is that, you know, we do potentially have that potential now of standard terms, which is really, really good. And you know, we are starting to see that is starting to emerge with an insurers.

(11:22):

Not all insurers are at that stage yet. Um, but we are starting to see that, which is really, really, really, really positive. Another thing to be aware of is, it’s sort a bit of a side tangent here, but the A B I, which is Association of British Insurers Silicon look at critical illness cover. They have what’s known as a, you know, it’s like the minimum standards that they would expect now previously, um, they have in their things like cancer, heart attack, stroke, Parkinson’s, lots and lots of conditions. And they used to have H I V listed as one of their standard minimum conditions to be included within a critical illness contract, uh, by a UK insurer. Uh, and what is interesting now is that they’ve actually removed h i v as seen as a standard, um, sort of critical illness because what they have now said is that they’ve, they’ve monitored, um, the, the medical world, they’ve monitored how things have changed over time, medications and prognosises for people.

(12:17):

And what they’re saying is that actually h i v is no longer the condition that it used to be. And so they’ve removed it from critical illness contracts as a claimable condition, which for some people they might see that as a positive or a negative. But if we try and look at the, the positive side of things, by them saying that, it’s then giving the insurers more kind of opportunity to try and change mindsets and to see that H I V is very, very different than what it used to be. Now in terms of critical illness cover, we are just starting to, to get to a stage where we might be able to have critical illness cover personal and critical illness cover, um, in the standard market. So that’s not going through the guaranteed acceptance where we’re having to look at things where, again, there’d be exclusions relating to to H I V, um, but we’re now starting to see it where say critical illness cover can be potentially offered.

(13:11):

There wouldn’t be exclusions relating to the hiv, but there would be a premium increase. Now premium increases always never sound particularly pleasant. Nobody wants to hear that they’re paying more for policy than, than somebody else. Um, but ultimately in terms of the way that the market is working at the moment, the fact that we have this as a potential option is an incredible first step towards getting even more of these policies available. And it’s the more that people take these policies out, the more that we can show the time data that, you know, people aren’t necessarily gonna be claiming on these policies, you know, just because they are living with H I V, um, then that means that it gets better options for everybody. So generally what we tend to find with this is that the insurers want you as somebody to have had their diagnosis for over six months.

(13:57):

And that’s quite typical across the board for any of the products, um, that, that you would be taking medication and again, the viral load undetectable, the CD four, usually, um, over 350 there can be questions, and this is something that does come up in the standard set as well about hepatitis B and hepatitis C. Um, so that would be asked generally in the same question set up when, when the insurer says, have you ever had or been tested? Are you waiting results for anything to do with H I v, hepatitis B or C? They’ve all usually combined together. So that would be something that the insurer, um, would, would want to ask a bit more about. They’d want to see things like when they speak to your medical professionals, that there’s been really good compliance with the medication, um, that, you know, your, your readings have continued to improve or at least maintained and stayed stable, um, for quite a bit of time.

(14:44):

And there are some other bits in there as well. Um, but they’re sort of like the really, really key things. Um, so that is on the personal side of things. So we’re not talking about personal and business, so personal life insurance and personal critical illness cover. So that’s the policy that a personal takeout for themselves where they pay for it themselves. We then have business life insurance and that is something where typically the business will pay for it for somebody who works for the business. Um, you can sometimes get a version of business critical illness cover in a sense. It’s, it’s a, it’s a very kind of, um, debatable area in a sense. There’s big debates in the industry about it. Um, it’s something that’s, I won’t go into in depth because it is very, very unique and it’s, and it’s certainly not something that’s, is, is gonna be widely probably available.

(15:33):

And I’m gonna look at a slightly talk about a slightly different type of insurance as well at the end of this. But, um, just a quick sort of like side thing as well to income protection. So that is something where again, you know, we’re wanting to look at options for, um, protecting somebody’s income. We want to know the person’s age that they are now the age of diagnosis. Um, so they could be asking about any significant time of work in the last few years. That is usually asked as a standard question for, for a lot of health conditions, you know, so if somebody has, I don’t know, let’s say, um, got some repetitive strain injury in their hands, um, they might be asked how, you know, how has it affected you from being able to do your work? How many days have you been able to work in the last so many periods of times, usually a couple years or so until recently, um, we had quite, we’d started to be able to do personal income protection and then when we’ve had all the lockdown in the pandemic, there was lots and lots of change in the insurance world and it kind of just went onto a little bit of a back burner for a little bit.

(16:30):

But it’s starting to come back now. And I’m very pleased to say that one of my colleagues, crystal Skeleton, was the first person, first advisor in the UK to arrange a full, full income protection policy for somebody living with H I V in the UK in the personal space. Um, it’s really important with one like that to know this, it’s, it’s not gonna exclude claims relating to your H I v. Um, it can sometimes be a sort of like a restricted term. So that would be saying, you know, that they’ll maybe pay out for a maximum two years per claimable offense. So it doesn’t mean that if you take out the policy, if you claim after two years the policy, that’s it, it’s over and done with, the policy could still remain active, but it is just, it wouldn’t continue paying after two years for the same event.

(17:20):

With income protection, we are likely to again see, um, premium increases. But what we tend to find is that with life insurance and critical illness cover, well life insurance, we might get standard, but we might start to go up to a little bit of a premium increase since critical illness might be at the same level there. But then they can keep going up quite a bit in terms of increasing the premium up to certain levels. Um, but they can do that for quite a bit, whereas with income protection at the moment, they will increase the premiums a little bit, um, but the will quite quickly, much more quickly stop their ability to offer the cover if it starts to get towards certain, um, premiums. Another probably sounds a little bit vague. Um, the other thing to um, just make you very much aware of is the, the beauty of what is known as group insurance.

(18:06):

So group insurance is a policy that is arranged usually by a limited company for the employees of the company. And that’s usually at least two people, sometimes three people, depending upon the insurer and the products that you’re going for. Now, brilliant thing with um, group insurance, it comes with what’s known as a certain level of free, um, acceptance levels, free medical acceptance limits. And that will be that the I insurer says, right? Because we’re ensuring a group of people, which is in the insurance world known as pooled risk, what they’ll do is they’ll say, right, cause we’re ensuring all these people up to this amount of money, you know, per person. So let’s say 200,000 pounds per person, we’ll ensure everybody without any medical underwriting, we don’t mind what medical history they have. Um, and we’ll just accept them. They’re eligible, we’re not asking anymore questions.

(18:55):

That’s that. Now, summit group insurer, do ask, have to just say, some of them do ask little questions like not, not say little questions, but they do ask small, small sets of questions that would be along the lines if, you know, have you had cancer, stroke or heart attack in the last 12 months? And some of them can ask a slightly longer set and say, has this, has someone been unable to work due to any of these conditions in the last 12 months? So, you know, there are sometimes questions that come up there, but not, not usually, um, ones that related to H I V. Um, and people can get insured that way and be insured very, very well. Same goes for income protection. There is a certain level of cover there that people can apply for where again, their medical history won’t come into play.

(19:37):

And again, there wouldn’t be exclusions on the life insurance or income protection In regards to claims relating to the H I V for critical illness cover, that’s slightly different. Again, people can be eligible for the cover, they can have the cover, but it does come with a preexisting condition exclusion if it is group critical illness cover. So what’s really important is if you ask somebody who has some something known as like, death in service through work or an enhanced sick pay scheme, find out a bit more about it. If it’s something that’s given to you as part of your employment contract, fantastic. Double check what that contract says, double check the insurer. Really speak to your HR people and just make sure you know all the information that’s in there. If it’s something that you pay into as part of like a salary sacrifice that can have slightly different terms and conditions.

(20:20):

So it can be worthwhile sometimes just having an advisor, an independent advisor, have a look at it for you or ask your HR people to have a look at it for you. But I hope that’s been a good update. Um, I’m really, really pleased to see that the insurers number of insurers really taking a very positive step in the right direction, supporting people living with H I V to get these policies. And, um, I think, you know, in terms of the, the brilliant changes we’ve seen in the last three years, it’s only even more exciting to see what the next couple of years could, um, could do for us. Next time I’ll be back with Matt Run and we are gonna be talking about family medical history and how that can sometimes play a role in, um, people’s applications for a protection insurance. As always, if you’ve liked this episode, please feel free to get a C P D certificate from the website, practical Open Protection dot code uk. And, uh, that is there, that CP d as thanks to our sponsors, the Okta members. Thank you for listening, uh, everybody. And uh, we’ll see you. See you soon.

 

Transcript Disclaimer:

Episodes of the Practical Protection Podcast include a transcript of the episode’s audio. The text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record.

We often discuss health and medical conditions in relation to protection insurance and underwriting, always consult with a healthcare professional if you are concerned about any medical conditions and symptoms we have covered in any episode.

IBTS - Updates to HIV Underwriting

Hi everyone, we have a brilliant inbetweenysode for you with some updates to insurance options for people living with HIV. It has been a long time coming but the past 3 years have seen big steps being made to improve options for protection insurance for people that have a diagnosis of HIV.

The key takeaways:

  • There are sometimes options for standard rates for life insurance, for people living with HIV.
  • Personal critical illness cover and income protection for people living with HIV is here!
  • Group insurance can often offer valuable protection insurance without the need for medical underwriting at application or point of claim for life insurance and income protection, up to specific free medical underwriting limits.

Next time I will be be back with Matt Rann and we will be talking about family medical history, why it’s so important in protection insurance applications and why it’s different for men and women.

Remember, if you are listening to this as part of your work, you can claim a CPD certificate on our website, thanks to our sponsors Octo Members.

If you want to know more about how to arrange protection insurance, take a look at my 13 hour CPD Protection Insurance in Practice course here and 1 hour CPD Protection Competency Exam here.

Kathryn Knowles (00:06):

Hi everybody. I am here with an in-between episode for season seven of the Practical Protection Podcast. I'm gonna be going through underwriting updates that we're seeing in the space for people that are living with HIV.

(00:28):

So everybody, just a very, very quick disclaimer. It is currently half term for me here, and that means that my 11 year old, eight year old and five year old are in the room next to me being bribed by two grandmas and is also a almost two year old cockapoo that's running around and banging and making noises. But hopefully with the way that my mic works and everything like that, we won't be able to hear them and there is sufficient, um, iPad batteries and chocolates to distracted children from, uh, coming and clawing at me. So in terms of updates, we have had phenomenal updates in the, uh, world of HIV underwriting. The first time that we actually an episode in this was in our first season, I believe, which was in 2020. And so in just for insurance, a relatively short period of time. So in two and a half years or so, um, even shorter than that because things have been trialing for a bit and there's been some pilots, um, going on, um, pilots going on with different companies and different things.

(01:24):

We've seen some really, really big differences. So we used to have it where we, we'd reached a stage about, you know, say about 2020 where for life insurance we were having options where there was maybe a loading on a policy, so that'd be a premium loading, premium increase because someone was living with h hiv. Um, but it was as a small loading compared to what insurers can do, some conditions, some disclosures, uh, and then we were going all the way through to some insurers having larger premium increases, potentially saying, well, we'll only ensure you for this amount of time. Um, and you know, it, it was a bit awkward at times trying to sort of tally up what the world was seeing and saying in terms of H I V, in terms of the treatments and the longevity of the lives of people who are now living with the condition when they are receiving their full treatment.

(02:15):

And what we were seeing in terms of the, what the insurers could offer and in terms of critical illness cover and in income protection in the personal space, options were incredibly limited. We had, for the critical illness, we had the guaranteed acceptance options, uh, which are very useful for some people. Um, but they would, uh, have a smaller claim set, uh, listed conditions than you would see in a usual critical illness contract, which is usually, I would say at least, let's say on average, probably about 60 conditions or more in a typical one. And with the guaranteed acceptance ones, it would be less than 10 conditions that you'd be covered for. It would still be covered for your key things such as cancer, heart attack, stroke, and a number of other things. But with those policies, with the guaranteed acceptance, they do come with exclusions for preexisting conditions.

(03:02):

So even though we were did have those three key things that cancer had attack, stroke covered, there was potentially some exclusions there in relation to the H I V and in terms of income protection, we had started to see some movement and some better options. But generally that in the personal space, I'd say in all these things. In terms of the personal space, that was typically restricted more to accidents and sickness cover, which is where it would be a maximum 12 month claim period. And again, there'll be exclusions relating to pre-existing conditions. And now we're fast forwarding to now and we have completely different, um, options available for people and uh, I'm gonna go through all of them. It's just gonna be a short episode, so don't worry, it's just gonna be a bit of a quick fire in terms of things that we can do for people.

(03:51):

So if we're looking in terms of life insurance, so I'm gonna talk about firstly from the personal and personal life insurance policies and also business life insurance policies as well. So we are at a stage now where we might actually be able to get standard terms of cover for somebody, uh, for life insurance, for somebody who is living with H I V. So I'm saying standard terms of cover, that means that there'd be no exclusions on the life insurance related to the H I V. There's also be no premium increases. Now, while that might be available, there are still certain things that the insurers look for in terms of being whether or not they can, sorry, offer that or whether or not there would still potentially be a premium increase on the policy. So the key things as an advisor or as somebody who is living with h HIV and wanting to know what they can do in terms of the UK life insurance market, the key things that the insurers are going to want to know is how old the person is now and how old they were when they were diagnosed.

(04:45):

So somebody's age, an age of diagnosis can really determine whether or not the, the, the policy is going to be, it's what's known as a standard premium or potentially what we maybe call as rated or say more, more clearly, less jargony, the be it an increase to the premium. There are a number of other things too. So they'd like to know how quickly someone has, uh, started their medication, whether they were diagnosed in the uk, um, the CD four count. Now that is something that's really interesting at the ME Inus. Um, beaver, which is a British H HIV association, have given guidance to the, um, specialists, um, in h HIV in the uk that if the viral load, which is another reading, sorry, I know, I'm sorry, going through a lot of medical terms here, but the viral load is something that, um, lets the, the viral load, lets the medical people, let's the insurers know let's the person know how active the virus is within their body.

(05:42):

So the viral load is usually when it's the fuller treatment is in place and the person's able to respond well to the treatment, it'd be known as undetectable. And what Beaver have said is that if the viral load is undetectable and stays undetectable, then there's no need to repeat what's known as the CD four count. And the CD four count is something that everybody has, and it's all to do with how many white blood cells there are in your body. And the, the higher the number, the greater the amount of white blood cells so that those fighting powers are for infections and things like that. So really, um, the insurers like to see really that the viral alert would be undetectable and that the CD four count would usually be at least above 350. But a difficulty that we are seeing as advisors and when we're trying to do the, um, the applications for people is that, you know, clearly with the guidance from the authority body, h HIV specialists aren't necessarily checking the CD four count levels anymore.

(06:40):

If somebody's bible order isn't undetectable now that is currently causing a little bit of trickiness when we are applying for life insurance. Um, because the insurers and the way that they're set up in terms of their underwriting, their manuals, their philosophies, they do like to see what that CD four count counts at the moment. Obviously we might see some change, but you know, it, it can just cause sort of like a bit of extra questioning. So if somebody has had that CD four count, uh, measured and checked in the last six months, that can really help again, towards the terms that could be available for life insurance. Now, a really important thing for advisors to know and for anybody who's living with h to know is that the insurers are not, and, and an advisor, we shouldn't ever be asking how the H HIV V was contracted.

(07:26):

It's nothing to do with the applications, nobody's asking those questions. So if anybody is living with h HIV and listening to this, please be, uh, hopefully there's a bit of comfort there and knowing that no, nobody's gonna ask you about that information. If it's something that you want to talk about with the advisor, sometimes we do have people who speak in depth about the situations that they have been in, then that is absolutely fine. But from an advisor point of view, from an assure point of view, they wouldn't be asking that. I say that, um, the only time that it can sometimes come into the, um, question set is that we do in life insurance policies generally need to ask about anything to do with drug use within certain timeframes. And so if the H I V had been, um, contracted, um, during drug use, then that could be something that, um, comes up in the question set.

(08:13):

But it's, it's not something that we would be directly asking. It might just be that there is seen to be a bit of a connection there, but that is the, the only thing that could potentially be seen as a connection if that had been, um, the events that had led to the diagnosis. The other things that an advisor and some with HIV, um, should be aware of is that when you often go through the life standard life insurance applications, there are obviously certain sets of questions that will come up, but not necessarily all the questions that are gonna be asked in terms of being able to get the insurance view. So that's one of the reasons that me and my team, we've worked really closely with underwriters a very long time to know what we need to ask to give you a really good idea from the start, from our research to be able to tell you what kind of terms you might be able to get and the terms are essentially what price you'll be paying for things like the life insurance.

(09:04):

And there are certain things that you know, can be, um, that can pop up. So, um, so of the, something that doesn't usually come up in the question set a standard would be have you had recurrent pneumonia? But that would be something that me and my team would probably tend to ask is, you know, along the lines, have you had anything like any infections, any recurrent infections to do with, you know, the breathing or anything like that just because that is something that the insurers would potentially be asking your GP or your specialist, um, in, in terms of their past. The other thing as well as any kind of linked conditions, so there is a cancer known as Capsi Sarcoma. Now that's not to say that somebody with living with HIV V is going to develop that cancer, but it is one that is potentially linked to H HIV V diagnosis.

(09:47):

So it'll be something that we would generally asked just to make sure we've got a really, really clear picture from the start. When I was saying there about the, the insurer maybe won't speak to your GP or your specialist usually with, um, insurance applications for people living with H I V, what the insurer will do is ask the see report from your medical specialist. Now, not everybody's GP due to data protections is very important for advisors to be aware of as well. Um, and for anybody who would to maybe try and apply for life insurance direct with an insurer, it's quite important for you to be aware of this as well. If the GP is unaware of the diagnosis of H HIV V, it's really important to make sure that um, the advisor knows that the insurer knows because then what they can do is they can adapt their process so that they will only speak with the HIV specialist and then that means that that confidentiality can be maintained.

(10:39):

If there's any advice out there who unsure about that, please do feel free to reach out to me. We can discuss our process that we have at Kira just so that um, you have that bit of extra protection for yourself and your client. Um, so if anybody listening is different with H I V, you know, there are steps that can be taken to, to protect that confidentiality of your diagnosis if that is something that you are obviously in a position of wanting to maintain and keep. So in terms of life insurance, personal and business life insurance, that is kind of where we are. So there's lots of things to know, but the important thing is, is that, you know, we do potentially have that potential now of standard terms, which is really, really good. And you know, we are starting to see that is starting to emerge with an insurers.

(11:22):

Not all insurers are at that stage yet. Um, but we are starting to see that, which is really, really, really, really positive. Another thing to be aware of is, it's sort a bit of a side tangent here, but the A B I, which is Association of British Insurers Silicon look at critical illness cover. They have what's known as a, you know, it's like the minimum standards that they would expect now previously, um, they have in their things like cancer, heart attack, stroke, Parkinson's, lots and lots of conditions. And they used to have H I V listed as one of their standard minimum conditions to be included within a critical illness contract, uh, by a UK insurer. Uh, and what is interesting now is that they've actually removed h i v as seen as a standard, um, sort of critical illness because what they have now said is that they've, they've monitored, um, the, the medical world, they've monitored how things have changed over time, medications and prognosises for people.

(12:17):

And what they're saying is that actually h i v is no longer the condition that it used to be. And so they've removed it from critical illness contracts as a claimable condition, which for some people they might see that as a positive or a negative. But if we try and look at the, the positive side of things, by them saying that, it's then giving the insurers more kind of opportunity to try and change mindsets and to see that H I V is very, very different than what it used to be. Now in terms of critical illness cover, we are just starting to, to get to a stage where we might be able to have critical illness cover personal and critical illness cover, um, in the standard market. So that's not going through the guaranteed acceptance where we're having to look at things where, again, there'd be exclusions relating to to H I V, um, but we're now starting to see it where say critical illness cover can be potentially offered.

(13:11):

There wouldn't be exclusions relating to the hiv, but there would be a premium increase. Now premium increases always never sound particularly pleasant. Nobody wants to hear that they're paying more for policy than, than somebody else. Um, but ultimately in terms of the way that the market is working at the moment, the fact that we have this as a potential option is an incredible first step towards getting even more of these policies available. And it's the more that people take these policies out, the more that we can show the time data that, you know, people aren't necessarily gonna be claiming on these policies, you know, just because they are living with H I V, um, then that means that it gets better options for everybody. So generally what we tend to find with this is that the insurers want you as somebody to have had their diagnosis for over six months.

(13:57):

And that's quite typical across the board for any of the products, um, that, that you would be taking medication and again, the viral load undetectable, the CD four, usually, um, over 350 there can be questions, and this is something that does come up in the standard set as well about hepatitis B and hepatitis C. Um, so that would be asked generally in the same question set up when, when the insurer says, have you ever had or been tested? Are you waiting results for anything to do with H I v, hepatitis B or C? They've all usually combined together. So that would be something that the insurer, um, would, would want to ask a bit more about. They'd want to see things like when they speak to your medical professionals, that there's been really good compliance with the medication, um, that, you know, your, your readings have continued to improve or at least maintained and stayed stable, um, for quite a bit of time.

(14:44):

And there are some other bits in there as well. Um, but they're sort of like the really, really key things. Um, so that is on the personal side of things. So we're not talking about personal and business, so personal life insurance and personal critical illness cover. So that's the policy that a personal takeout for themselves where they pay for it themselves. We then have business life insurance and that is something where typically the business will pay for it for somebody who works for the business. Um, you can sometimes get a version of business critical illness cover in a sense. It's, it's a, it's a very kind of, um, debatable area in a sense. There's big debates in the industry about it. Um, it's something that's, I won't go into in depth because it is very, very unique and it's, and it's certainly not something that's, is, is gonna be widely probably available.

(15:33):

And I'm gonna look at a slightly talk about a slightly different type of insurance as well at the end of this. But, um, just a quick sort of like side thing as well to income protection. So that is something where again, you know, we're wanting to look at options for, um, protecting somebody's income. We want to know the person's age that they are now the age of diagnosis. Um, so they could be asking about any significant time of work in the last few years. That is usually asked as a standard question for, for a lot of health conditions, you know, so if somebody has, I don't know, let's say, um, got some repetitive strain injury in their hands, um, they might be asked how, you know, how has it affected you from being able to do your work? How many days have you been able to work in the last so many periods of times, usually a couple years or so until recently, um, we had quite, we'd started to be able to do personal income protection and then when we've had all the lockdown in the pandemic, there was lots and lots of change in the insurance world and it kind of just went onto a little bit of a back burner for a little bit.

(16:30):

But it's starting to come back now. And I'm very pleased to say that one of my colleagues, crystal Skeleton, was the first person, first advisor in the UK to arrange a full, full income protection policy for somebody living with H I V in the UK in the personal space. Um, it's really important with one like that to know this, it's, it's not gonna exclude claims relating to your H I v. Um, it can sometimes be a sort of like a restricted term. So that would be saying, you know, that they'll maybe pay out for a maximum two years per claimable offense. So it doesn't mean that if you take out the policy, if you claim after two years the policy, that's it, it's over and done with, the policy could still remain active, but it is just, it wouldn't continue paying after two years for the same event.

(17:20):

With income protection, we are likely to again see, um, premium increases. But what we tend to find is that with life insurance and critical illness cover, well life insurance, we might get standard, but we might start to go up to a little bit of a premium increase since critical illness might be at the same level there. But then they can keep going up quite a bit in terms of increasing the premium up to certain levels. Um, but they can do that for quite a bit, whereas with income protection at the moment, they will increase the premiums a little bit, um, but the will quite quickly, much more quickly stop their ability to offer the cover if it starts to get towards certain, um, premiums. Another probably sounds a little bit vague. Um, the other thing to um, just make you very much aware of is the, the beauty of what is known as group insurance.

(18:06):

So group insurance is a policy that is arranged usually by a limited company for the employees of the company. And that's usually at least two people, sometimes three people, depending upon the insurer and the products that you're going for. Now, brilliant thing with um, group insurance, it comes with what's known as a certain level of free, um, acceptance levels, free medical acceptance limits. And that will be that the I insurer says, right? Because we're ensuring a group of people, which is in the insurance world known as pooled risk, what they'll do is they'll say, right, cause we're ensuring all these people up to this amount of money, you know, per person. So let's say 200,000 pounds per person, we'll ensure everybody without any medical underwriting, we don't mind what medical history they have. Um, and we'll just accept them. They're eligible, we're not asking anymore questions.

(18:55):

That's that. Now, summit group insurer, do ask, have to just say, some of them do ask little questions like not, not say little questions, but they do ask small, small sets of questions that would be along the lines if, you know, have you had cancer, stroke or heart attack in the last 12 months? And some of them can ask a slightly longer set and say, has this, has someone been unable to work due to any of these conditions in the last 12 months? So, you know, there are sometimes questions that come up there, but not, not usually, um, ones that related to H I V. Um, and people can get insured that way and be insured very, very well. Same goes for income protection. There is a certain level of cover there that people can apply for where again, their medical history won't come into play.

(19:37):

And again, there wouldn't be exclusions on the life insurance or income protection In regards to claims relating to the H I V for critical illness cover, that's slightly different. Again, people can be eligible for the cover, they can have the cover, but it does come with a preexisting condition exclusion if it is group critical illness cover. So what's really important is if you ask somebody who has some something known as like, death in service through work or an enhanced sick pay scheme, find out a bit more about it. If it's something that's given to you as part of your employment contract, fantastic. Double check what that contract says, double check the insurer. Really speak to your HR people and just make sure you know all the information that's in there. If it's something that you pay into as part of like a salary sacrifice that can have slightly different terms and conditions.

(20:20):

So it can be worthwhile sometimes just having an advisor, an independent advisor, have a look at it for you or ask your HR people to have a look at it for you. But I hope that's been a good update. Um, I'm really, really pleased to see that the insurers number of insurers really taking a very positive step in the right direction, supporting people living with H I V to get these policies. And, um, I think, you know, in terms of the, the brilliant changes we've seen in the last three years, it's only even more exciting to see what the next couple of years could, um, could do for us. Next time I'll be back with Matt Run and we are gonna be talking about family medical history and how that can sometimes play a role in, um, people's applications for a protection insurance. As always, if you've liked this episode, please feel free to get a C P D certificate from the website, practical Open Protection dot code uk. And, uh, that is there, that CP d as thanks to our sponsors, the Okta members. Thank you for listening, uh, everybody. And uh, we'll see you. See you soon.

 

Transcript Disclaimer:

Episodes of the Practical Protection Podcast include a transcript of the episode's audio. The text is the output of AI based transcribing from an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors and should not be treated as an authoritative record.

We often discuss health and medical conditions in relation to protection insurance and underwriting, always consult with a healthcare professional if you are concerned about any medical conditions and symptoms we have covered in any episode.