Kathryn Knowles (00:05):

Hi everybody. I have matran back with me for episode five of season seven. Hi Matt.

Matt Rann (00:11):

Hi Kathryn. How are you? How are you keeping?

Kathryn Knowles (00:14):

I’m all right. As everyone can probably tell the I am absolutely chaker full of cold, so everybody have to forgive me. We are gonna keep this as a, a short episode. Maybe people will like that as a bit of a difference. I won’t rumble as much as usual. Um, but, but, uh, but yeah, I’m, I’m planning to get through it. I’ve got a coffee to hand, I’ve got tissues to hand and a mute button whenever I need to cough. How are you doing, Matt?

Matt Rann (00:35):

<laugh>. Oh, dear. Um, I shouldn’t laugh really. I do apologize. <laugh>. Um, that’s fine. It was, it was the pause button that got me. Uh, not, not too bad. I, I had a bit of an instant earlier on in the week where I ended up at a and e for, for the whole morning, which was a bit annoying. Bear in mind, today, tomorrow, um, and, uh, as usual with the people’s last week before they go on holiday, it was Chaka. Yeah. So I managed to, but having said that, the nhs, um, even though the junior doctors were on a strike, uh, and picketing outside the hospital where I was, um, were absolutely fantastic. And it’s not the first time, um, that I’ve heard that from various people have ended up in a and e. They were so, so thank you nhs. And then yesterday, just to cut my week, my, uh, my car is needed over a thousand pounds worth of, uh, un uh, totally unexpected repairs. So, um, I’m having one of those weeks,

Kathryn Knowles (01:29):

Um, you having one of those weeks, but all we do is everybody, we have our fingers crossed that the holiday gets going without any issues.

Matt Rann (01:38):

Well, it’s going to rain, Kathryn.

Kathryn Knowles (01:40):

Oh, well that’s the number three. So there we go.

Matt Rann (01:42):

There, there’s the three.

Kathryn Knowles (01:43):

Except far, didn’t we? There’s three things. So we’ve had the, um, cut, we’ve had the expensive car and now it’s gonna rain on holiday. So that means that everything else is gonna be wonderful.

Matt Rann (01:51):

What can I say? Fantastic, <laugh>. Absolutely. You did, you did ask, didn’t you? About my week. So there I

Kathryn Knowles (01:58):

Did. I did. Oh, bless you. Okay then. So today we’re gonna be talking about ovarian cancer and what it can mean for your protection insurance applications. This is the Practical Protection Podcast.

(02:18):

So we are back to going, sorry, get a deep dive of things. So I’m gonna give a little bit of background in terms of ovarian cancer, not too intensely. So, cause we really want to get into the main things with Matt and how we understand that in terms of the insurances. And then I have a little case study for us to go through at the end. So in terms of, um, ovarian cancer, it mostly affects women over the age of 50, but it can be diagnosed at any age. And the greatest risk is actually between the ages of 75 and 79. The symptoms that people can experience, they can be very, very varied, but a common one is potentially bloating. And the difficulty is with ovarian cancer is not always obvious, um, when it is happening and it can often be diagnosed quite late. I remember saying quite late, that means that the cancers maybe had a chance to become what we see, say Mario, a bit, a bit bigger, a bit stronger, um, and that we’d want to have maybe got it out, um, as soon as, as we can.

(03:13):

As with any cancer, it can be linked as well. Ovarian cancer to certain things, um, that can make us more likely for being diagnosed with this. So that’ll be what’s known as the br gene Endometriosis, diabetes being overweight, and also breast and bowel cancer can potentially make it more likely for us to be, to be diagnosed with it. So Matt, I know I’ve just given some information, some statistics there, but can you give us a, a good sort of background about ovarian cancer please? Cause I think some people as well, and No, I, I think probably, I, I was gonna say, I’m gonna stereotype here and that’s probably very naughty of me, but I think probably men will probably think, well, it’s cancer down there. And that’s probably the, the gist of what a man would probably think about. I imagine. Cause obviously there’s wound cancer, there’s cervical cancer, and even sometimes those differentiations, especially with family medical history, can make a really big difference in terms of the options that somebody can get in terms of their insurances going forward. So, so can you explain it for us please?

Matt Rann (04:11):

Yeah, certainly. I’ll know, I can go through the, the types of ovarian cancer and also, um, mention the fact that, uh, ovarian cancer can actually start off in the fallopian tubes.

Kathryn Knowles (04:23):

Oh, yes.

Matt Rann (04:24):

Um, so obviously that’s not within the ovary itself, but the, the treatments and the follow ups, uh, for, for ovarian cancer, which will start in the fallopian tubes is, is very, very similar. I’d just like to add something, um, to, to the, to the bloating, uh, symptom. I think one of the things that, um, you know, if anybody asked of me, I suppose amongst friends and family, um, about bloating and so on and so forth, I would, I would say parti that with the ladies particularly, um, be aware of lower abdominal pain and particularly pain, but bloating as well, that doesn’t necessarily or continues when you’re not having your period.

Kathryn Knowles (05:08):

Oh, okay. Yeah,

Matt Rann (05:10):

I think that the two pains can be, sorry, the cause of the pain and the bloating can get a bit mixed up between, between those ladies who are in the periods and not. If it continues when you’re not having a period, then maybe it’s a time to maybe just make that call to the doctor. Um,

Kathryn Knowles (05:28):

I suppose that’s quite difficult as well. Cause you know, we were talking about the average age, around the age of potential. We’ve got menopause coming in and that can play absolute havoc, havoc on symptoms and regularity of periods and the discomfort and everything. So, so yeah, I think, you know what you’re saying, you know, it’s, it’s that probably that persistence, you know, there’s, there’s just no letter whatsoever.

Matt Rann (05:49):

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I would, I would just please throw that in as a, I would probably mention that myself to, to friends and family. If indeed anybody did ask, I would have to say, um, okay. As I’ve said, the, uh, ovarian cancer, um, doesn’t necessarily start in the ovaries themselves. Um, it can, uh, start in fallopian tube. And also, um, there is something called primary peritoneal cancer. Now, peritoneum is, uh, a, a thin tissue sac that contains all the internal organs Yeah. Of the body. And, um, cancer can start there as well. And they’re kind of all broadly grouped, um, into the ovarian cancer, uh, category. And the, the actual types, like, like all cancers, uh, doctors, uh, oncologists, cancer specialists, in other words, um, will we’ll try and define them and break them down, um, to really define the treatment, the plan that is needed.

(06:49):

Um, and from that, the prognosis as well. Yes. So in terms of, uh, of ovarian types of cancer, um, they, they tend to be named off the types of cells where they start from. Okay. So epithelial cell, ovarian cancer, and that’s the, that is where cancer’s, uh, starting on the surface layer of the ovary, I suppose the clue there is epithelial. Yeah. Um, and that accounts for 90% of all ovarian tumors. And this is the one that particularly impacts generally. Of course, I speak generally, uh, for women over the age of 50. Then you’ve got two, um, less common bear covered, 90%. One is called germ cell ovarian cancer, and that’s where the, uh, the cells comes to cells develop, um, in the egg itself. Um, and that counts about one in 20, and that’s the one that usually impacts younger women. Yeah. And then finally, these, there’s, uh, stromal cell carcinoma, which is, uh, the, the cells that make up impacts the cells that make up the very core, very center point of the ovary itself, again, about one in 20, but that that can impact, uh, ladies of any age who see that young, more old.

(08:12):

Um, but that the, the fact that 90% of ovarian tumors of are epithelial and they’re usually impacting the woman over the age of 50 kind of highlights the point that you made earlier about the old, the older ladies. Yes. Um, in terms of, I was going to kind of jump onto the staging here. Now. Staging is something that if, if, uh, and I believe from recent statistics, there are a lot of people who, who, um, come back to listen to the various podcasts mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and we’ve, we’ve talked about the types of ovarian cancer, but, um, again, the treatment and the prognosis, um, will also come from the staging of the cancer. And this kind of covers something Kathryn A. Little bit later on. Matter of fact, you might wanna introduce this as a topic a little bit later on in our conversation, but I was just gonna say that we have cancer staging one to four, one being the, has the best prognosis for the worst.

(09:15):

And I was gonna maybe talk a little bit about that in term, maybe later in terms of what underwriters specifically look for in order to determine what terms will apply little bit later. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, now, again, something which may be mentioned later on, but I think that it’s worth it, it links in, I think to, uh, to what I was just saying is that, um, effectively ovarian cancer and the BRCA gene, again, which you’ve mentioned already, um, are, are linked, uh, yes. <inaudible> about it. Not, not not, uh, all ovarian cancers, but it’s, it’s interesting to note that 20%, maybe a few more percentage points above that of all ca ovarian cancers are because of a genetic mutation. And, and that is the highest amongst the, the, the most common cancers. Yeah. Uh, you, for instance, I can throw more statistics saying that the overall five to 10% of cancers are linked to a known inherited gene mutation, but 20% to 25% of ovarian cancers are hereditary.

(10:32):

So again, you, you know, when you look at the way that underwriter will look at this, family history is very important. Now, there are numerous, I’ll say numerous, that’s probably a little bit unfair, overstating the position. And there are a number of, uh, mutations, um, that are linked with ovarian cancer. But certainly the, the most common, again, as you stated, is the BRCA one and two, they’re the most common. Um, just to, again, restate and sorry if I record on, on mentioning some of these facts again. No, it’s all BRCA one and BRCA two, um, are in fact humor suppressive genes. That’s what they, that’s their job within the body, if I can bring it down to, to lay, lay people’s language. Yeah. Um, and they’re, they’re effectively responsible for producing the proteins that repair the damaged dna. Okay. And that stops, um, um, or it keeps abnormal cells cell growth in check.

(11:33):

So if there is something wrong with the repair gene, the suppressor gene, then it doesn’t do its job properly, then you’re gonna get more abnormal cells floating around the body and developing, um, causing a, a cancer in the first place, and obviously metastatic cancer later on. So these BRCA wood and BRCA two are very, very important, um, genes. And if there is a mutation then that they don’t work properly, then you may, somebody may have a problem later on. Yeah. It’s not, as we spoke last week about family history and not last week, sorry, last session about, and writing session about family history. There’s all types of other things that come into this, but, um, it, it’s certainly not very helpful. Let, let me put it that way. Um, I would also just say, uh, again, uh, maybe restating what we said recently, but BRCA is also linked with, with breast cancer. I think that’s a pretty well known one, um, well documented in media. Um, but as well as, as of course BR is also linked to prostate, pancreatic, prostate cancer, pancreatic cancer, and melanoma as well. Um, so that’s where we are in terms of types of ovarian cancer. Was there anything that kinda sprung from that, that you’d like, like, like to quiz me on Kathryn or

Kathryn Knowles (12:55):

Think? No, I think that’s really good. I think it really helps. Cause I think as well, you know, as advisors, you know, we can hear stuff like ovarian cancer and you know, obviously generally that’s probably, that’s probably enough to first go on. But as you say, you know, there are different types as well and, you know, they can potentially end up with different outcomes. They could have potentially had slightly different treatments to them. So, you know, it’s, it’s good to know and to hear the, the wording that can sometimes come along with the word ovarian cancer, because if you’re not familiar with medical terms and someone suddenly says, you know, epithelial ovarian cancer, some, something like that, it’s, yeah. Are you kind of thinking what now? You know, you, you can be really, really thrown by it and trying to figure out how to spell it and it can feel a bit flustered by it. So I think that’s really, really useful. Thank you.

Matt Rann (13:41):

I think the staging, the staging of the cancer will, we’ll talk about that in a minute. Um, yeah. But that would hopefully give, um, our listeners a, a, a, a better insight into in terms of the, um, the, the underwriting treatment. But yeah. Okay. That’s good. That’s good.

Kathryn Knowles (13:57):

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So in terms of the underwriter then, Matt, so I know what we’re gonna go onto here. We are gonna go into that staging and grading and the different things such as timing and stuff like that. But what is it, you know, if I were to come to you and say, Matt, I have some with ovarian cancer, I’d like to be able to have you underwrite them for potentially life insurance, critical illness, anything like that, what do you need to know? So what would be the things you’d, you might, my bullet point list of things to go and find out from the clients?

Matt Rann (14:23):

Okay. The, uh, the, the, the first thing we got any shadow that, and you’ll find this with all cancers, let’s be honest about it, but we’re talking about ovarian cancer today, and that is, as what you say, is staging. Now this is a, um, all cancers are staged if obviously the pathologist in this particular case, um, has the information and has, has looked at the, um, uh, the, the biopsy, uh, slides and um, and decided on the outcome. Yeah. Now, absolute worst case scenario in terms of the information, and this is, this is commonly held information, some in my opinion, I think you’ll probably be, uh, far more in tune with than I am. Um, but most people will have an idea at a high level of what they’re staging of their cancer is. You may wildly disagree with that. Um,

Kathryn Knowles (15:18):

That’s a tricky one because

Matt Rann (15:19):

Yeah, I thought you might say that <laugh>.

Kathryn Knowles (15:21):

Yeah, it really is because obviously sometimes we get TNM scars, so that’s tanga November Mike scars instead. And um, I often tend to find as well that people know the staging, but they dunno the grading. Yes. I do find that quite often. So people, you know, they tend to know I was, it was stage two, I’ll, they’ll nod that number very, very quickly. Um, sometimes I have where people say, oh, it was grade this. And I think, I wonder if they’re actually thinking that it was grave, but it’s actually was staging because I think that’s the, the number that people usually really hold onto. Um, but I think another thing as well that people can, that we can find, and this, I was gonna say, this did really surprise me when I first started advising and now I’m, I’m surprised that I was ever surprised by it <laugh>.

(16:02):

Um, but um, but um, but people compartmentalize as well and some people will say to you, I’ve had this cancer. And then sometimes they literally, they, they don’t have that information because they’ve just tried to keep it. They, they’re over it in a sense. There’s behind them, it was a obviously horrible time for them. And so they, they try to not remember those things. So actually asking them to go off it can be quite an emotional thing. Um, but it’s, you know, as an advisor, it’s just really important to make sure you position it in a way that, you know, you don’t want to upset them. You, you know, you don’t want to be causing them any distress by finding that information. But ultimately without the staging and the grading, you are anywhere. I mean, I’m not saying this specific for ovarian cancer, but with cancer generally, you can pretty much say, well, it’s anywhere from potentially normal terms fluid to a decline. There’s, there’s just no knowing unless we have that staging and grading there, as well as the other things that you’re gonna mention as well, Matt.

Matt Rann (16:55):

Yeah, no, ab ab absolutely. Um, it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s an interesting one I have to say, but as I said, I am certainly bow to your experience on, on that one. Um, okay, so staging one to four one, um, uh, is is where the cancer itself is, is contained, uh, if you like, locally to the, uh, its originating site. And four, um, is where the cancer cells have, have spread around the body effectively and, and, and started to invade. Um, other s now has sub, which is what you were talking about in terms of grades and so on and so forth, and sub are a, A one, A two B, and C, sorry, B four C. Um, and I think that’s a bit where people probably may not remember particularly. Yes. Um, one to four, maybe some people will, but you know, an advisor, if somebody comes to you and they’ve said they’ve had stage four cancer, um, then terms have been pretty hard to get. Yeah. Now I’m not talking 30 or 40 years ago, I’m kinda like talking in the last 10 to 15 years depending on the type of cancer. It’s okay. So

Kathryn Knowles (18:05):

Yeah, it’s very, very hard if someone’s stage four. Right. You know, we’re generally, we do tend to, to to see that. Um, so somebody I spoke to, it was last year, they’d had lung cancer, not lung cancer. They’d had, oh, I think it was non-Hodgkin lymphoma 10 years ago at stage four. And that was just, there was just nobody, um, in, in the personal routes, there was nobody prepared to, um, look at life insurance for them unfortunately. But there are options. So people are listening. There are sometimes options. It does depend upon the way that we can access the insurance, the route that we would go down insurance-wise. Um, but as you say, the, the higher the staging, the more, the more tricky it can be to get the insurances, um, the more expensive it does tend to be. But a big thing that, um, that we do and um, that I do say to people, cause I’ve had somebody recently brought to me for, um, for, they’d had, um, esophageal, I’m not sure if I pronounced that right, um, cancer.

(18:59):

Yeah, that one, um, at stage three a couple of years ago. And again, everywhere is pretty much a a a a no, but there’s one that’s maybe, and it’s, you know, potentially very, very, very, very expensive. And it’s that case of if you do get something like that or you’re wondering about it every year, at least, you know, every year that it goes since diagnosis, since last treatments, the cost of these policies, the availability, it becomes so much more available, um, for, for the majority of the time. Um, so it’s always worthwhile if you’ve taken out insurance and you’ve had cancer in the past, the premiums are increased and you are now a further time period since that diagnosis. Since the treatment, there’s been no occurrence. It’s always worth rechecking if there’s something now out in the market that is gonna be pricing better for you.

Matt Rann (19:44):

Yeah. I, I would also say and add to that, Katherine, I and I appreciate it, and plus you, sorry, teaching you tos eggs here, but you’ll find that different insurers use different reinsurance manuals and different reinsurance manuals will treat some cancers in a different way. Absolutely. So, you know, anybody out there, you know, please talk to a, um, a a an experienced, uh, iffa, uh, who deals with these things because they will find you the best deal in terms of premium. Yeah. Um, and it is worth searching the market for. Cause not, not all insurers do the same thing for various tumors. So, okay, so that was just adding to what you were saying. Of

Kathryn Knowles (20:21):

Course. Absolutely. Um,

Matt Rann (20:23):

So if I, if I just go through this pretty quickly. Um, so stage one is is um, again just building into a bit more detail about things we’ve already talked about, but it’s is confined to the ovary or Aries or, or the fallopian tubes. Now up through, when I go through this staging tubes will always be in there as well because the doctors treat it the same.

(20:46):

Um, so if you look at the subes, this is really kind of not only goes through stage one subes because, uh, or sub stages, sorry I should say. Cause it can get quite complicated. But for instance, and purely as an example, the stage one one A is, um, where only one ovary, um, has been impacted and it, and it’s confined within it. Ok. Ok. So cancer hasn’t spread out. Okay. When cancer starts to spread, the prognosis gets worse. One B is where both ovaries have been, um, in uh, impacted, uh, but it’s still confined within it.

Kathryn Knowles (21:25):

Yeah.

Matt Rann (21:26):

When c is where one or both ovaries have been impacted, but the cancer is, sorry not, but, and the cancer is found on the outer service and the ovary, but it hasn’t gone further. So effectively stage one is the, is the, um, the has the state has the best prognosis and therefore underwriting terms. Um, but the one a1 BK can impact it as well. Yeah. So my, my advice to everybody is that if, you know as, as you said Kathryn, is that the, if you can get a hold of the histology report, either the client may have it, um, we sent it to them so that them by their doctor, then that is the key piece of information and you’ll find that that’s the key piece of information in any claim for critical illness that ever comes up as well is the actual histology report itself. Yes. That allows the underwriter to be much more precise in the way that they, they look at the case and be precise in their rating.

Kathryn Knowles (22:31):

Absolutely. And one thing I will say as well is that if you have any specialist letters at all that’s confirmed the diagnosis also confirm the, the discharge from any kind of, um, services that can immensely quicken up the ability to un write an application cuz someone shows can at times potentially accept that as their medical evidence instead of us having to go for the GP report and everything. And I’m so conscious, Matt, that we’ve given ourself a half hour deadline for this and we are, we we’re pushing it. So can I take you to the next bit a little bit then? So

Matt Rann (23:04):

Just maybe just I, I do appreciate and by the way it was me who um, put that in there. So <laugh>, so stage what, just, just going through and emphasizing what we’ve already said. So stage one it’s got a five year survival rate of 93%. So that’s pretty good. That’s

Kathryn Knowles (23:18):

Pretty good. That’s brilliance

Matt Rann (23:19):

Stage. Remember we’re talking four stages, stage two,

Kathryn Knowles (23:23):

Yeah.

Matt Rann (23:24):

Five year survival rate of 74 stage 3 41 and stage 4 31.

Kathryn Knowles (23:31):

Okay.

Matt Rann (23:32):

Surgery is needed is always, uh, required. I say always vast amounts of cases always required for whether it’s stage 1, 2, 3 or four. Yeah. Chemo is nearly always required for stage two, stage three and stage four. And sometimes it’s required for even for stage one. So sometimes an underwriter will say to try and get a feel for the case. What type of treatment did you have? Yes, not particularly that useful for ovarian cancer. Okay. With colon cancer for instance, which I know all about, you tend to, it’s all, you tend to have chemo when it gets to stage three or four.

Kathryn Knowles (24:10):

Yes.

Matt Rann (24:10):

Uh, so you can kind of judge where the staging is if the client doesn’t know. So sorry Katherine, I’ll leave it at that. I just rates and that’s

Kathryn Knowles (24:19):

Really, really not really, really useful. And I think, you know, in terms of, that’s something that I learned as well. Cause you know, when I first started out, you know, in, in advising especially helping people with medical conditions, I didn’t know huge amounts about everything. It’s something that’s been built up over years and everything. But one of the things I probably started out as an advisor is I didn’t really know in a sense the difference between chemotherapy and radiotherapy or what it kind of signified in terms of which would be done more or first or was it auto, you know, it was just one of those things cuz to me it was like, oh, chemo radiotherapy, I heard about that for cancer. Okay, that’s done. But you do, as you say from from the treatments and things, usually if it’s chemotherapy it’s usually reached a stage where they’re having to go to chemotherapy. Um, and you know, it’s, it’s, it’s gone into a, to the stronger, more, uh, severe levels of the cancer. Um, so that it’s just

Matt Rann (25:09):

The cancer is, the cancer is spread or very highlighted with it’s, so the chemotherapy as you know, floats all around the body. Radiotherapy is very specific.

Kathryn Knowles (25:18):

Yeah. And targeted isn’t it? I think quite

Matt Rann (25:21):

Ab ab absolutely. Um, I mean chemotherapy is targeted but it’s designed to kill all cells floating wherever they’re in the body. Regular therapy much more at a particular point. Sorry, it’s just, you know that anyway. That’s fine

Kathryn Knowles (25:33):

<laugh>. No, no, no, absolutely. It’s good for everybody who’s listening. So, um, are there any kind of linked conditions or specific long-term symptoms that if an advisor hears about it or maybe they should ask about, so I know with some conditions the question sets that the insurers ask on their applications don’t necessarily reflect all the things that they maybe would want to know from a GP report. So I tend to ask, you know, with certain conditions, some extra bits, is there anything in terms of things like ovarian cancer that we should say? Do you, have you also experienced anything like this or anything like that? Or is it just the case of No, we’re just quite straightforward details of the cancer.

Matt Rann (26:06):

I think the, um, the, the key focus is really on the, on the staging of the cancer. Yeah. Let’s be honest about that. Um, you’ve also obviously got the uh, genetic link mutation link. Yeah. That I think would, would maybe coming to the background which can impact other conditions of course. Um, I’m very much focusing here on life insurance by the way. Yeah, yeah. Protection then even if terms were available then you’d be, I mean hysterectomy for instance not, you know, long-term side effects maybe because of the surgery. Yeah. Uh, um, all types of uh, other kind of will come up with that for income protection. So as regard purely life insurance then I would say really focusing on that staging.

Kathryn Knowles (26:53):

Okay. And what would you expect then for life insurance, Chris Klasko and income protection. And I know that that’s an incredibly boss statements because there’s obviously three completely different products there and obviously somebody who’s had mono over affected is very different to someone who’s had stage four ovarian cancer. But, you know, are there certain kind of timeframes that you think, right, if you’re going to apply for insurance and you’ve had ovarian cancer, you know, we, we’d expect probably that the insurers would want you to be at least generally would want you to be this long since surgery or since treatments. Yeah, no,

Matt Rann (27:26):

Absolutely. I mean I think if you just, um, trying a practical terms, bring this back to what we were saying. If you’ve got a 93%, um, chance of five years, um, with stage one, then stage one is filed more likely to be, um, acceptable earlier on Yes. Than stage two, three and four maybe. Well certainly stage three and four. Um, so I, my due diligence if you want, my research says that you can probably get covered within two to three years for a stage one. Thanks. Potentially stage two, that’s what I mean about looking around. Um, but the premium will be pretty steep. You know, it’ll be maybe 10 pounds per thousand pounds some assured for, for five years or four years, something like that. Yeah. But you quite said the longer you go post cessation of treatment then the, uh, the premium will come down. There’s there two ways about it.

Kathryn Knowles (28:20):

Yeah, absolutely. Does that, does

Matt Rann (28:22):

That actually help critical illness covers? Yeah, some will depending on the staging. Some will. Um, well I’m not entirely convinced actually we’ll get an exclusion because of course the uh, the genetic component of this 25% of ovarian cases can need all types of uh, uh, issues. But maybe you’ll get a cancer exclusion. Yes. So may and I’ll say a think may income protection, you’d have to be, uh, in very good form for a long period. Yeah. Very long period before we got income protection.

Kathryn Knowles (28:50):

Absolutely. And when we talk about this as well, sorry, I’m just gonna cough. Hmm, there we go. That’s a coffee. I’ve managed this song I’ve done well, um,

Matt Rann (28:57):

<laugh>

Kathryn Knowles (28:58):

You know, obviously thank you. Um, you know, we’ve got the fact that um, uh, sorry I’ve go off a bit of a tangent there. My mind’s just started a bit of a blank. Um, so, um, in terms of the family medical history, cause I said the genetic components and everything as well. Oh, that was what I was going to say. So in terms of the cancer, it’s really important as well to just be very clear that if you were going to have a cancer exclusion, just really be mindful of the exclusion that could be there because, you know, we’re not just saying it’s, it’s, it’s not necessarily going to be an ovarian cancer exclusion or cancers of using the term only the cancers down there would not necessarily just be excluded. It could be the full cancer exclusion. So it’s just you, you’d still be covered for many, many situations, but it’s just making sure that you’re very aware of that.

(29:44):

And, and the other thing I was gonna say as well is that when we’re talking about this for these policies, we are talking about personal policies. So that’s ones where you arrange them yourself, you pay for them yourself. There are sometimes other options and other possibilities and that can be looked at at times. But for the majority of people, they will probably look at the personal options. So I’ve got a quick case study to give cause I know that people do like the case studies as well. So we did have a client and she was in her early forties and she’d had ovarian cancer six years prior to the app. So that goes back to when we were talking about the average ages. And we usually around the age of 50, this person was much younger than that, she’d had a cyst removed and it had been confirmed as stage one a ovarian cancer and there hadn’t been any spread to anywhere nearby.

(30:30):

And she’d had a full hysterectomy just as a case of let’s, you know, as a, just in case everything was going to be removed. That was the decision from her medical professionals. So in terms of her options, let’s say it was six years prior to our application, we would arranged for her, for her mortgage decreasing life insurance of 185,000 pounds over 27 years for a little bit under 13 pounds per month. So when we are talking about sometimes these things are premium increases, it’s, it’s really worth noting. And, and a premium increase is never nice. And it’s not something that I say, oh, well it’s only increased by this much, so why are you, why are you not bo, why are you bothered about that? That’s never the case. But I think what people do need to know, and sometimes when you hear premium increase, it can scare you off even taking that first step to even ask what the price would be.

(31:15):

And so like with this one, as you can see, somebody did have ovarian cancer and it’s that, that life insurance is just under 13 pounds per month. So life insurance generally for a lot of people is priced incredibly cheaply. So when we do talk about the premium increases, it’s not necessarily that they are gonna be silly amounts, it’s, it’s never nice to have a premium increase. I certainly wouldn’t say that, you know, I’ve, I’ve previously had my premium increase myself for my health and it’s, it isn’t pleasant. But when we think of these things, we think of these increases on the life insurance side, it really isn’t often anywhere near what people think it’s going to be. So there we go. Matt, thank you everybody for listening and thank you as always for your insights. Matt, if you’d like a reminder the next episode, please drop me a message on social media or visit the website, practical Health and Protection dot code uk. And don’t forget that if you’ve listened to this as part of your work, you can claim a CPD certificate on the website too. Thanks to our sponsors, the Octomembers. Thank you Matt.

Matt Rann (32:14):

Thank you. Speak soon. Bye.

Kathryn Knowles (32:16):

Bye.