Kathryn:       Hi everyone, this is episode two of season five and I have Lynn Beattie, also known as Mrs Mummypenny with me today.  Hi Lynn!

Lynn:           Hi!  Thank you for having me.

Kathryn:       It’s lovely to have you with us and today we are kicking off a Mental Health Awareness Week and we’re gong to be chatting about what it feels like to apply for insurance and the reasons why people apply for it.  This is the Practical Protection Podcast.  How are you doing, Lynn?  We’re now at the end of January.  Have you fully recovered from sort of like getting back into work and everything this month?

Lynn:           I think so, it’s been quite a challenge to get back into sort of the swing of things in January I think, but yeah – by now I’m on track.  I have clear plans for the year.  I have clear – also personal finance plans for the year.

Kathryn:       Brilliant.  I know obviously we chat quite a bit on social media as well and I think it’s been lovely chatting to you and I know just sort of like maybe it will help some people, I don’t know, who are listening but one of the things that we do, before we get into the main sort of nitty gritty thing of everything is, we put together a spreadsheet didn’t we, just before Christmas and I think that’s been – that was incredibly helpful for me with my mental health.  And we did this thing where we had a column which was like, “What am I doing?”  In a sense, kind of like really like open up questions to the universe isn’t it?  And then a case of like, “Do I really need to be doing this?”  You know, does it give me any kind of return, you know, whether or not that’s financial but then also as well happiness-wise.  And, you know, also can someone else be doing this for me?  And I think, you know, I found that really powerful to do that when we did that last month.

Kathryn:       So, let’s get into the thing that we’re obviously here for which is talking about mental health and insurance.  You know, in a sense of, you know, I know that money and financial security is obviously a huge focus for you as rightly it should be, as it should be with anybody and insurance is obviously a very key way of putting some protection in place for a number of different things, you know.  I know that obviously you’ve got a family as well, so things like life insurance, income protection are really, really key things for you.  Can you talk us through the insurances that you have and in a sense why you took them out?  What was that kind of trigger point that was like, “I need this”?

Lynn:           Yeah, yeah.  So, so life insurance I have and income protection insurance I have.  But very different journeys for both of them.  So, with my life insurance, I knew from a pretty young age that I needed to have life insurance in place basically because a dodgy advisor in an estate agent when I bought my first house at the age of 25, said I had to have a life insurance policy in place to protect the mortgage.  So, it was – I didn’t understand sort of what I was doing at the time, I was almost just forced into a decision.  But we are talking like 20 years ago –

Kathryn:       Yeah.

Lynn:           And probably some things are very different now.  It was a very different world then.  But yeah, but still the life insurance – just the concept of it was important to me because my parents died when I was a teenager and there were huge repercussions of them dying at a young age, leaving – well they left me as a teenager without, you know, any – without much money.  So, it was just one of those real, “Oh, I can’t have – I can’t not have any life insurance because I know that death is here,” because I think a lot of people think that they just don’t want to think about death like it’s never going to happen.  Of course, it’s like it’s the only certainty in life, we’re all going to die and when it’s sort of forced upon you at a young age, it was just a really essential policy for me to have.

Kathryn:       Absolutely.  I was going to say it’s, you know, we often talk about, you know, in terms of as I say the triggers and obviously from you, it’s a lived bereavement that has obviously made you think, “Well actually, I really need this, this is something that, you know, I’ve lived through it in a sense, probably not being there and how much, you know, it could have really helped.”  And obviously as with anything like this, when something like that happens and a bereavement happens, you know, money certainly doesn’t solve or cure what is happening at that moment but it can make things more manageable and a bit sort of like, smoother and almost not – I don’t want to say easier.  I know it doesn’t feel like there’s any kind of right words just to explain how it can be helpful but I suppose that could be it – it can be helpful.

Lynn:           Well it – I think it’s one – it’s one less thing to worry about isn’t it?  Because when you have a traumatic event happen like somebody close to you dying, you need to be there to grieve that person who’s died and, you know, have all the conversations with people about that person dying and sorting out the funeral and just processing it emotionally.  You don’t want to also have to be stressing about money.  So yeah, having that life insurance policy – really, really important for me.  But – and I sort of took it out when I was 25 and I didn’t really touch it for many years because I didn’t really understand what the product was and this is what gets me about life insurance and I know we’ve talked about it a lot before, we talked about it on my podcast but insurance products – they are quite complicated to understand for like, you know, a layperson.

Kathryn:       Yeah.

Lynn:           And I have only got an appreciation for these kind of products, you know, since I’ve been doing like the job I’ve been doing.  And also, there’s like financial stages isn’t there where you almost need to get in control of any sort of debts and stuff you might have and when you’ve paid off your debts, it’s like the next stage is to sort of start building an emergency fund and then sort out your protection needs.

Kathryn:       Yeah.

Lynn:           So, there’s sort of these steps in your financial journey, so I think a lot of people haven’t necessarily got to the point where they’re assessing their sort of protection and insurance needs like – I don’t know the stats for how many people that don’t have life insurance for example but I think there’s quite a lot.

Kathryn:       I think there is definitely quite a lot.  I mean, when we talk about – there’s always the famous sort of like phrase of the protection gap in a sense, you know, and that is incredibly high, you know, in terms of like the amount of people who are underinsured and I think one of the things that people, you know, they do wonder sort of like, “Well, why aren’t people engaging with insurance, you know, this is so important?” There’s so many people who, you know, have families that would really struggle, they’d end up maybe losing their home, if there –

Lynn:           Yes.

Kathryn:       Wasn’t that kind of insurance in place and obviously for the main person who’s bringing an income into the household unfortunately dies.

Lynn:           Yes.

Kathryn:       But I also think as well sometimes that with life insurance and I’m sorry to hear that obviously you had that advisor who said, “Oh you must have this,” but even now we sometimes get that, you know, and I do hear people will say to me – they’ll come to me and they’ll be panicking because obviously as you know, I tend to help people who have sort of like a situation or circumstances where they maybe would be struggling to get insurance and I step in.

Lynn:           Yeah.

Kathryn:       And they’ll come panicking sort of like saying, “Well I’ve found my home but I can’t get insurance and I’m going to lose my home and the option,” and I’m just like, “Well why?” and they’ll say, “Because I’ve been told I have to have life insurance,” and then it comes back to that thing of saying, you know, as an advisor, you know, it’s a case of like, “You don’t.”  It feels wrong to say you don’t have to have life insurance as an advisor because, you know, it goes against everything in my being in a sense but it’s like, “Don’t worry, you can still get your dream home, you really, really should have this insurance –”

Lynn:           Yeah.

Kathryn:       But please, you know – but obviously, it’s a shame that that does still happen but obviously, good advisors don’t say that kind of thing and I’m hoping that the majority of them don’t say that anymore.  It is rare that we hear it, but it is something that can still happen.  But even that, you know, in a sense the mental health implication of that kind of a situation for somebody, you know, to sort of like have that where it is massively going to affect, you know, their life and, you know, sort of like, the way that they’re feeling because they’re being told, “Well actually, you can’t have this dream that you have because it’s not there.”

Lynn:           Yeah, yeah, you mentioned protection gap – I have actually got a life protection gap still at the moment.  I know we had this conversation like two or three months ago when I first told you about it but I still do because – so I’ve got a couple of life insurance policies that are linked to previous houses or whatever but they’ve still got some years to pay out but I’ve only actually got about £210, £220-grand’s worth of life insurance and my outstanding mortgage is about £100 grand more than that.

Kathryn:       Yeah.

Lynn:           So I know I have a gap, which I promise you it’s on my to do list to sort out, but I can’t – I’m in the middle of the – I’m waiting for an ultrasound to be done on something that’s being investigated, so I need to get the all clear from that before I can progress with the life insurance.  So I’m stuck in this Catch-22 situation.

Kathryn:       Yeah, I was going to say that’s a really tricky situation and I think, you know, as you say, you know, we’re talking about here about people wanting to get insurance and we do have this – and somebody maybe even in your situation or a similar situation where they’re – we have quite a lot of people that have maybe come to us and they’ll go, “I’ve just been diagnosed with this and I need life insurance,” or, “I’m having these outstanding tests, I need life insurance,” and it’s a really difficult conversation because obviously there is a huge mental health aspect to that because that’s it, there’s been a trigger, their health is massively affected.  In terms of an advisor, you know, automatically in some ways, you know, an advisor needs to start thinking, “Well actually, do I have potentially someone here who’s a bit vulnerable?”  And we’ve got this thing in the advice world –

Lynn:           Yeah.

Kathryn:       Where talking about vulnerability and it’s something that I do some training on as well, where it’s a case of sort of saying, “Well we kind of trained and built into us, you know, in many ways, from what’s known as our compliance and regulatory side of things that the vulnerability comes down to certain financial aspects and age as well.”

Lynn:           Yeah.

Kathryn:       There’s a big thing about if someone reaches a certain age, are they of sound mind?  Which is quite insulting, you know, obviously to quite a lot of people but there is this massive vulnerability as well about people who’ve maybe had something quite significant happen, they could have potentially just been divorced.  They – and suddenly the partner’s the one who’s done all the finances and they suddenly think, “Well hang on a minute, where is everything?”  And it might be that they can’t in a sense get a hold of the insurances and be involved in what it was there or it might be that they find out that actually they’ve not been – had anything done for them and there’s been like a control aspect and, you know, then we have other people who’ve maybe, as I say, got this kind of, you know, something’s going on health-wise, there could be something going on with the children and there can certainly be lots of different things.  I know as well you said that you have the income protection side of things, so I mean suppose what was the – because income protection is something that we see in our industry that’s – we think – we feel is massively undersold.

Lynn:           Yes.

Kathryn:       I mean, everything that we do in life is underpinned by money and generally the resources that are bringing in that income – so if someone’s like massively involved in their pensions, if someone’s got a mortgage then, you know, you really, really do need to have some kind of income protection there because if the income goes then in a sense everything crumbles.  So what was it for you that kind of – you suddenly thought, “I need to get this?”

Lynn:           Yeah.  So, a very, very clear process.  So, it never entered my mind to have it when I was employed.  Never.  Because I would have had – oh, what’s the word?  You know that death in service benefit?

Kathryn:       So, yeah – so death in service is the life insurance.

Lynn:           Oh sorry, that’s life insurance.

Kathryn:       So you’d have had like enhanced sick pay or something maybe.

Lynn:           Yeah.  I had some sick pay.  And I worked for big companies, so the sick pay policies were pretty good, so yeah, I wasn’t worried about it.  But then I became self-employed in 2015 and so first few years of self-employment, I – my earnings were like rubbish.  I made a loss in the first couple of years so it didn’t even enter my mindset to take on income protection insurance because I couldn’t afford it.

Kathryn:       Yeah.

Lynn:           I was also paying off debt.  Well, I’d got into debt and then I paid off debt.  So it wasn’t until – yeah, I paid off all the debt in 2019, my company had got to a point where it was earning sort of decent levels of, you know, turnover and profitability and then I was like, “Okay right, now I need to start actually protecting myself properly.”  And that’s when – so I’ve had my income protection insurance – yeah, maybe for like three years actually and I’ve actually swapped the policy in that time because another thing on my to do list is to talk to you about what’s in my current policy because I think you had a few questions about it.  But yeah, I’ve got a policy that covers me for – like my essential expenses to be covered.  It kicks in after three months, because I’ve got an emergency fund that will pay for stuff for three months.  It has some – so I’ve got a sort of previous medical stuff and I’ve got some previous mental health stuff so there are a few exclusions in it but it’s a pretty good policy and I’ve got loads of those added extras which you’ve also told me about so I know I can access like counselling and all kinds of physiotherapy and stuff for free.  But yeah, so I’m pretty happy with the policy I’ve got but it was literally that logical process of, “Now I can afford it –”

Kathryn:       Yeah.

Lynn:           “And now my business is making enough money to actually protect my income.”

Kathryn:       Yeah.  I think that’s a really good point and obviously we’ll go into, if it’s okay with you, a little bit more in terms of like the mental health side of things but something you’ve said there really stands out to me.  So we have this thing kind of like in our industry, where it is a case of, you know, people say – well people say income protection isn’t affordable.  But it is affordable.  And obviously, it depends upon the situation, people’s age, you know, as you say, the different things in terms of what’s known as a deferred period, how long their claim would pay for.  And I think, you know, there is thing of – a co-host of mine often says – Roy McLoughlin, you know, that obviously quite a lot of income protection policies are – they cost about £1.00 a day to be able to have it which is obviously brilliant.

But one thing that I kind of like to be very clear of as well is that yes, income protection can be, you know, potentially affordable and there is sometimes this line of sort of like, is it affordable to somebody and they just don’t really see the worth of it?  Or is it something that, you know, we would maybe – or as an advisor or somebody externally we – like somebody might have looked at what you were going through, Lynn and gone, “You know what?  You can afford £30 a month.”  But I suppose, in terms of what like you were saying, you couldn’t afford it.  I mean, from a mental health point of view as well, sort of – if you are kind of really towing the line in terms of finances and it’s a case of, “Well actually, I could protect my income for £30 a month but maybe that £30 a month means that,” you know, I don’t know – I’m trying to think of something, you know, for some people it could be, “Well, it means that I’ve got my mobile phone, which actually is really important to me, it means –”

Lynn:           Yeah.

Kathryn:       “I can be social with people, that is really going to benefit my mental health,” or it could be that, you know, instead of having to really kind of ration your food, you’re actually able to once a week get yourself something, I don’t know – a couple of nights a week something really nice that you’re going to really enjoy that’s just going to make you feel so satisfied.  And I think we sometimes don’t necessarily as advisors or as an industry – sometimes I think there’s that line isn’t there that sometimes it’s that thing of like, we need to obviously really hit home with the importance of this, but we also need to take into account the mental health aspect –

Lynn:           Yes.

Kathryn:       That for some people, £30 a month is – that’s £30 a month for some people and, you know, that’s – you can’t kind of assume that £30 is actually affordable for everyone.

Lynn:           And it’s £30 a month on something that you’re probably not going to have to access.

Kathryn:       Yeah.

Lynn:           So that’s what I – that’s what I’ve always struggled with in my head.  With insurance as a whole, I mean, car insurance right?  Like, you have to have that – because –

Kathryn:       Yes.

Lynn:           Because I’ve had a car crash in the last year, so it was very essential that I’ve had it.  And, but like – I’ve had – say dishwasher insurance in the past which I’ve cancelled.  That is a – that is a bit of a pointless insurance to me.  Holiday insurance is another interesting one.  Like, I always have holiday insurance but I know so many people that don’t bother with it.

Kathryn:       That terrifies me, absolutely terrifies me.  I could not go abroad without insurance.

Lynn:           With the income protection insurance, it was – yeah, there was an initial fear with how much I thought it would cost because, go back to understanding of insurance policies, I was always quite confused between the difference of critical illness insurance versus life insurance versus income protection insurance.  It’s messy, right?  It’s really messy, so it was – and I’d got into my head – somebody had done me a quote for critical illness insurance when I was in my 20s and it was a lot of money.  It was like, £90, £100 a month or something, so that then stuck in my head and I think this is the thing with money, there can be one trigger event that happens in your younger years, informative or not, which then sort of colours the rest of your life.  So I was always sort of imprinted with this view of this income protection or critical illness. whatever it is, it’s going to cost me loads of money.  And to be honest like, if income protection insurance was £100 a month to me now, I probably wouldn’t do it because I’m not spending £100 a month on an insurance policy.  But as it stands, my income protection is – it’s just gone up which is annoying.  It’s gone from like £34 a month to £36 a month –

Kathryn:       Yeah.

Lynn:           And actually my deferment – so it doesn’t kick in for three months.  I could probably kick that out to six months to save a bit of money and this is actually where a qualified advisor comes in, you’ve already given me these ideas of how I can reduce my income protection insurance down but I just see it as a hugely – because I can afford it, I see it as a hugely reassuring thing that just whatever happens, whatever happens to me with my health, my income is sorted and I will keep this house that surrounds me and –

Kathryn:       Yeah, yeah.

Lynn:           I’ll be fine.  So it’s – from a positive mental health aspect, it’s huge.  But you can only do it when you can afford it, so it’s a real quandry.

Kathryn:       Yeah.  It’s a huge, as you say, a huge, huge peace of mind and – but there is that thing of, you know, sort of, well it is a piece of paper, if that, a lot of it’s electronic now, it’s a file on your computer somewhere that we all hope nobody’s ever going to need to claim on.  Obviously, if it is there and, you know, obviously if there is a claim, obviously, so we really hope it’s not the case but it is incredibly useful if they are there but, you know, I think something as well that you were saying as well as, you know, in terms of all these added extras, you know, a lot of the time now people obviously – we always think and it is, you know, we think of an insurance as the end result, the claim.

Lynn:           Yeah.

Kathryn:       You know, which is obviously, that is what it’s there for, it is the key thing, I know Tom Baigrie – I’ve forgotten the exact phrase he uses but, you know, it is basically – it’s saying, “This is it.”  You know, the insurance is all about the claim.  That’s, you know, we need to have that perfect.  And a lot of insurers now, over the last couple of years have been starting to add these extras that you were mentioning, like the potential for counselling, the mental health support but they’re so brand new and I think it’s still, you know, we’re not in that kind of thing where people are seeing it as kind of normal that they can access something just randomly still that can be really, really useful for them.  And, you know, it could well be a case of, you know, when we’re chatting about things, you know, somebody – it could be that there’s a couple and one of the couple has an insurance and there’s someone else who’s wanting to get insurance but they’re may be feeling a little bit apprehensive or they’re just wanting to chat to somebody.

And it could be that they can potentially even access the mental health support through their partner’s insurance, just to kind of put their mind at ease, make this kind of initial journey, like you say, so much easier.  Because it does take quite a lot to kind of step forward and want the insurance.  And I do think, you know, there’s no hiding that we do have some very negative stories that go out in the media about what it’s been like for people applying for insurance and, you know, some of us have experienced it.  I didn’t have a particularly nice experience when I first went for insurance and it was due to mental health and, you know, I think that can really – obviously it can put people off.  But you know there’s been so many improvements, you know, in the last decade or so.  When I first – it’s scary to think I went for my first insurances a decade ago but, you know, obviously a decade ago I did and it has made such incredible changes.

I know that you had a really good experience obviously when you were going through like your most recent ones as you, you know, you said, you know in terms of you needed like a bit of a top-up in terms of life insurance when you’ve got your income protection.  And, you know, it’s – you were – I’m sure you said to me you felt really supported.  Obviously, you did need to discuss your mental health.  I mean, what was it like having to – because that’s something that really I think worries people, sort of like thinking, “I’m going to have to in a sense relive everything or I’m going to have to say it to 10 people before I even get anywhere or they’ll just turn me away straight away.”  So what was it actually like for you going through the process?

Lynn:           Yeah.  I didn’t have to have lots of conversations.  I think – well, I’ve had a – it’s been interesting because of this – because of this gap I’ve got in my life insurance.  So, income protection was all fine to sort out, so there was a conversation that happened about that and yeah, you have to go into detail about – actually it wasn’t that much detail – about sort of mental health stuff and – because I’ve had quite a bit of therapy over the years and about 15 years ago I was diagnosed with seasonal affective disorder.  Nothing really more than that but you just have to be open and honest and talk about it which – I mean I see no shame in talking about these kind of things.  I think probably every single person in this country has got something that’s happened in their life that they could do with a bit of therapy to deal with, so it’s just that we’re maybe the braver ones who have actually sought out the help.

But yeah, talk about them and it’s – I’ve always been really quite open and honest about all the sort of medical stuff to do with my family anyway.  But potentially that’s traumatic to talk about.  Like, I know – I mean I’ve spoken to you about this quite a bit anyway sort of one to one, but I’ve got quite a lot of like heart conditions in my family now.  So I know that I’m going to have to sort of talk to my – when I have my next life insurance conversation, you know, to bridge that gap I’ve got, I’m going to have to now say, “My Mum and Dad died of heart attacks, now my sister has had a heart attack, now my brother has had a heart attack and I’m the only other person left.  And I am a lot younger than everybody else, but – and I have had everything checked,” but it – I know that that’s going to be quite a difficult conversation because I’ve just got this fear then that because of all those issues that it could end up with life insurance being rejected.  But then I also know that I could speak to you and you’d probably find me an insurance – you could help me out.

Kathryn:       Absolutely, absolutely and I think, you know, it’s –

Lynn:           But I’m quite a difficult case now because there’s, you know, as we get older, yeah, you’ve got your medical and your physical and your mental health conditions you yourself but also everyone around you because that also impacts on the policies doesn’t it?

Kathryn:       It does, yeah.  So, if you have like – it’s always your immediate – I always say immediate blood relatives and it’s, you know, it’s parents and siblings so it’s not cousins, it’s not aunties, uncles, grandparents, it’s just that immediate set of people before a certain age, usually the age of 65 – there are certain things that the insurers would ask about.  And some of them, you know, if it’s a yes, you know, it doesn’t necessarily means it’s going to massively affect things, sometimes it can influence the pricing –

Lynn:           Yeah.

Kathryn:       Or sometimes what’s covered in some of the policies, if you were maybe talking possibly more like a critical illness side of things.  So, you know, I think another thing you were saying there, about like being completely open and honest and I think what a lot of people don’t necessarily realise is that when you go for insurance, if you are going to be disclosing anxiety, stress, depression – and these are something that are in a sense, quite mild, you know, there are certain aspects of somebody’s mental health that will make an insurer look a little bit more at the application and that’s not to say that they’re going to look at it and necessarily say no, there are some times that insurers will say no, but that doesn’t mean all insurers.  But things like anxiety, stress, depression, if you’re talking life insurance, critical illness cover, you know, even if you’re taking medications, even if you’re going to talking therapies, a lot of insurers now see that that’s kind of part and parcel of life.  And that’s a really, you know, it’s positive to be active and proactive about your mental health.  And they do take that on board.

It does become a little bit trickier when you’re talking about things like income protection because sort of like the – two of the main areas that are for income protection that there are claims on, are mental health and things like back pain.  So it is one of those things with income protection where quite often, if you’ve had something in the past then – or if it’s something you’re living with now, it can be that quite a lot of insurers will put an exclusion on for that situation.  And I think with anything and it’s something that we always do, obviously for myself as an advisor, I just try and obviously be as honest and open at the start and it’ll be a case of I say to people, “Well, I get a mixture of feelings when people say, you know, I say to someone if there is possibly going to be a mental health exclusion,” and I get a mixture of people saying, “Well I don’t want that, because what happens if I can’t work due my mental health?”  And then you get the other half of the people saying, “Well it’s never stopped me working so far, so I don’t mind that.”

And, you know, I think it’s really important just to – with anybody who’s potentially listening, is just always to sort of like, just find out first.  Before sort of like making any assumptions as to what you can or can’t have, there’s no hardship in asking, you know, and especially if you are speaking to an advisor.  A lot of the time, advisors will do a lot of this work for you without in a sense putting anything in place, saying, “Oh you have to pay us this amount of money.”  It depends upon what type of advisor you go to obviously but a lot of the time you can get some really, really good indications without having to actually in a sense put anything else in other than your time and obviously though as well the emotional time of potentially discussing some of these things as well.

But I think that’s really good and I think as well, it would be good to just sort of like you know, I think we’ve touched upon it a little bit before Lynn, but just as we’re coming to the end of the podcast, to sort of say, what does it mean to you potentially – how do you think in your – in terms of your mental health, what does it mean to you to know that if something happens to you in a sense your house is paid off, your kids have a house?  That’s it.  And if something happens and you can’t work, it’s fine.  The money’s still coming in.

Lynn:           Yeah.  It’s – it means so much more as a self-employed person.  Because everything’s on – everything’s on me, literally everything is on me.  I’m a single mum.  I’ve got a big mortgage.  I run my own business.  I’ve got three kids and a cat, soon to have a dog and it’s a huge amount of responsibly when it’s just me.  I’m sure it’s also a huge responsibility for you with a partner but I feel quite a lot of weight on my shoulders and I need things in my life that give me reassurance and protect me.  And I don’t have like that much in reality.  Like, I don’t have a magic person who can give me a load of money.  It’s all on me.  So I have to have these kind of policies because it means that, you know, if something happens and we can’t say that it’s never going to happen because I know it’s happened.  Like, my Mum died when she was 58.  My Dad died when he was 63.  We know plenty of people who have got ill with all kinds of diseases so particularly, you know, by the time we get into our 40s.  So yeah, I just feel hugely reassured and I would never like – I wouldn’t I just wouldn’t be without them as products.  I just wouldn’t.

And I suppose, the sort of next point I’m getting to as my income goes up is do I need like health insurance?  Because that’s the next thing I’m moving to in the sort of journey of insurances, but actually, I’ve had an incredibly positive experience with the NHS over the past like three years despite everything, you know, that’s happening with Covid.  And yeah, I’ve had to wait for certain treatments and scans and operations, whatever, but I’ve eventually got them and I’m happy so I’m not sure health insurance is something I maybe need.  And also, I think that’s – I’ve got another thing in my head, I think health insurance is very expensive but that might not actually be true.

Kathryn:       I think it depends.  It depends, as with anything with insurance and that’s probably a good thing to sort of like go towards the end.

Lynn:           That’s actually a really good point.

Kathryn:       Yeah, it always – it depends, you know.  If, you know, if you take out insurance in your 20s, then it’s going to be cheaper than if you take it out in your 50s, you know.

Lynn:           Yeah.

Kathryn:       And if you have, you know, certain situations in terms of health or different things – or it’s not just health, it’s potentially, you know, if you’re somebody who likes to do skydiving quite regularly, that might affect things a little bit.  And, you know, there’s so many different aspects of it –

Lynn:           Yeah.

Kathryn:       And obviously as well, if you were a smoker as well that, you know, massively affects the premiums.  And it’s one of these things, you know, it’s just a case of like I was saying before I think, you know, there’s no hardship in having a look and seeing what the price is.  And, you know, and obviously, just – and as well, it can be, you can, people can do it themselves, you know, later or – tomorrow, I’m going to be chatting to some people and we’re going to talk about the different routes to getting insurance.  We’re going to be talking with an advised firm, so I’m an advisor myself, so that’s a route that I’m very familiar with.

Lynn:           Yeah.

Kathryn:       We’ll be talking to somebody from what’s known as a non-advised firm.  And somebody from a well known comparison site as well to just explain those different routes and also how each of those routes can be really supportive for people with mental health conditions.  And I think some people, especially when you come from your own area, you can think, “Oh well my area’s best and my way of doing this is best,” but ultimately not matter what, with something like this, we don’t know everybody and what they’ve been through and how their mental health affects them.  You know, someone with anxiety is not the same as someone else with anxiety.  And there is – it’s so important to just make sure that we have these so many different areas that people can try and just –

Lynn:           Yeah.

Kathryn:       Do what feels right for them to get that first kind of foot in the door, the first kind of – like have a look at things and just make sure that everything’s right for them.

Lynn:           Yeah and I just think like don’t close yourself off to it, be open to it because it is a fundamentally reassuring product to have.  It’s just there to make life easier if horrible things happen, so –

Kathryn:       Yeah.  Thank you, Lynn.  Thank you so much for coming and talking about this because I know that you are so busy.  As you said, you’ve got your own podcast, I know that you’re promoting your book quite a bit at the moment as well and that’s all been coming out and I don’t know if you want to share the title of that at the moment for people that are listening?

Lynn:           Thank you.  Yeah, I’ve actually sold quite a lot of copies of it over – like December January.  It’s been really exciting.  So “The Money Guide To Transform Your Life.”  It’s been out for about a year, but I did an amazing podcast season, which Kathryn came on to episode 10 – sort of the tail end of last year and I sort of celebrated a chapter – each chapter of my book with – I basically chose the best experts in the financial field to come on to each podcast episode.  So I had people like Pete Matthew, who came on to talk about like savings and investments, Kathryn came on to talk about protection, Romy Savova came on to talk about pensions and it was – I mean those are the long-term ones, but also it covers a lot of short-term stuff, so like family finances, budgeting, debt.  So it’s a great book, it’s £10, buy it!

Kathryn:       Brilliant!  Absolutely love it.  And I was going to say as well, I think what’s important with that because again, you know, I was chatting to somebody today and he’s – I mean he’s older than me, it was someone that I am friends with and he was saying – it’s like – he goes, “I’ve probably got about another 16 years’ worth of pension going into it but I’ve not done anything with it at all,” and it’s – it was – his pension was actually frozen ages ago.  And I was sort of like thinking, that’s so important, because eventually as well, the knock-on financial and then eventual mental health side of things that’ll come from that.  It’s so important, it’s just so inter-connected and I think it’s hard and I’m going to be one of those people – I’m sure some people will disagree, but I’m one of those people that thinks we do need to educate people at such a much younger age than we are, but I don’t – to be honest, I don’t think I actually in any part of my education got any kind of like – anything about why a pension was important or why insurance could be important or anything like that.  And it is something that we really need to – because it is about setting ourselves up for life financially and I think – pretty sure that financial stress is one of the biggest causes of mental health problems and there are so many things that we can do to protect ourselves.

Lynn:           Usually, like, the suicide rates in this country from financial issues are scary and I fear for what’s going to happen over the next few months and in 2022, you know, with all the bills that are going up and the credit card bills that people will have now got from Christmas and are worried about.  It’s really worrying times mental health-wise and there’s not enough funding in this country to support it, so yeah.

Kathryn:       Absolutely.  No, I completely agree.

Lynn:           It’s good that you’re doing this podcast.

Kathryn:       Thank you.  Well thank you so much for – obviously for coming on and thank you for listening.  Tomorrow, I am going to be back with Phil Jeynes from Reassured, Alan Knowles from Cura Financial Services and Neal Cross from Money Supermarket and we’re going to be talking about those different routes to insurance.  And if you would like a reminder of the podcast, obviously, I am hoping you’re going to stay with us this week, but going forward, just drop me a message on social media or visit the website, practical-protection.co.uk and with every episode of the podcast that you’re listening to, please go onto the website to be able to claim a CPD certificate too, thanks to our sponsors that are the Octomembers.  So thank you so much, Lynn.

Lynn:           Thank you for having me, it’s been great to talk to you.

Kathryn:       Lovely to speak to you too.  Bye.

Lynn:           Bye!