Kathryn:

Hi everyone. We are on episode four of season six of the Practical Protection Podcast, and I have Matt ran back with me. Hi Matt.

Matt:

Good morning, Kathryn. How are you? You keeping well?

Kathryn:

I am, thank you. I’m doing well. I know we’re gonna be slightly outta time sequence wise, but I’m just getting over my second bout of Covid. And, um, and I went outside for the first time in a week, uh, yesterday and took a, took my little fudge out for a walk, which was a very lovely start seeing some of the, uh, dark nights and the lights coming on as I was walking around the town. So it was lovely. And how are you doing?

Matt:

Yes, not too, not too bad at all. It’d be nice. And about we, uh, we managed to get to Grand Canaria Nice. For a week. And, um, believe it or not, the first four days it rains continuously.

Kathryn:

Oh, not so nice.

Matt:

And the, uh, the, the, the place that we were at, um, it, it gets three days, apparently gets three days a, uh, rain a year.

Kathryn:

Oh.

Matt:

So, of course they’re not geared up to it at all. And the place was flooded. The, the hotel was leaking, and the, the only full day of sunshine that we had eventually was the last day we were there.

Kathryn:

Oh, no,

Matt:

That’s, that’s said we had a great time.

Kathryn:

Oh, that’s good. That’s the main thing. A good,

Matt:

Had a good, we talked absolutely. We, we, we talked an awful lot, which can’t be a bad thing.

Kathryn:

No, absolutely. <laugh>. I was thinking, I was thinking, talking lots and playing cards, it just feels like a thing you need to do. Playing cards as well on holiday

Matt:

Life was that simple, but <laugh>. Exactly. Exactly. But no, it was, it was very good. Thank you very much indeed.

Kathryn:

Fantastic. Well, today everybody, we’re gonna be talking about high cholesterol and what it can mean if you are looking for protection insurance. This is the Practical Protection Podcast.

Kathryn:

So I’m gonna do the usual where I give a little bit of background about high cholesterol, and then Matt’s gonna be giving us lots of insights in terms of the insurance and the underwriter side of things. So high cholesterol is essentially when you have too much of a fatty substance in your blood. So this could be a number of different reasons. It could be fu having too much fatty food. It could be lack of exercise, smoking, drinking alcohol, uh, being overweight. And there’s also sometimes as well where it can be kind of a bit of a genetic predisposition to having high cholesterol. There can be some quite significant health complications from cholesterol. And one of the difficulties from it is that there’s no symptoms for the high cholesterol. So it’s, it only comes from a, a test that you can do. And so there could be many, many people wandering around with high cholesterol, no symptoms, and absolutely none wiser.

Kathryn:

Um, it also, sorry, add even more confusion to matters is that there is good cholesterol and bad cholesterol. So a good cholesterol is stuff that, um, it kind of grabs hold of the bad cholesterol, um, taking it to the liver to be broken down. And with a bad cholesterol, that’s what’s leading to too much fat, um, in the arteries getting clogged up and can be make other things as well quite bad as well known as the triglycerides. And this will all lead to sorts of certain conditions or high risk of conditions that me and Matt be chatting through. But as an advisor, especially if you hear somebody mention that they’ve got high cholesterol, they might also say something like atherosclerosis, or they might say atherosclerosis instead of high cholesterol. Um, but essentially that is where it’s really starting to build up around the artery walls and restricting the blood flow.

Kathryn:

Um, and what I said is, you know, with cholesterol, you do usually get a test. So one of the things that I have with my insurance is my protection insurance is each year I get a bit of like a mini health m r t. And so I have things that like check my, um, high cholesterol and other parts of my body as well, like urine samples and everything, um, just as a, a yearly checkup, which is really, really good. So I do recommend, um, suggesting that you have a look at your own insurances and, and if something like that is available with the insurances that you’re recommending to clients to make sure that they’re aware of things like that as well. So Matt, I suppose that the key thing from the start then is to, and probably some of the things I’ve said, they’ve, they’ve led to an answer about it, but why is it that insurers want to know about things like high cholesterol?

Matt:

Okay, Katherine, um, many thanks for that. I just wanted to pick up on one point, um, regarding the people, um, uh, the fact that some people will not know that they have high cholesterol. Um, and you talked about, um, uh, physical, uh, side of it Now, when I was a much younger underwriter than I am today, um, there was something called ak

Kathryn:

Okay.

Matt:

Know, effectively that was a, a gray ring around the pupil of the eye.

Kathryn:

Oh. And

Matt:

Doctors, medical examiners used to look out for that as a possible sign or a sign that somebody has got, um, suffered from raised cholesterol for a long period of time. Well,

Kathryn:

That’s interesting.

Matt:

When I was, um, yeah, as, as I always do, I, I have a little read around, um, prior to these podcasts to make sure I’m up to date and my thinking, and I couldn’t, uh, I couldn’t see it, um, without actually looking it up directly. I couldn’t actually see it mentioned in any article at all. So it, whether it’s been dismissed not, but, uh, I don’t know. But certainly that was something that was, um, was around a good number of years ago. Now

Kathryn:

It’s very interesting

Matt:

Either way. Um, you, you’re absolutely right. And maybe to answer your question, um, yeah, uh, cholesterol is, is certainly a, uh, an important risk factor, um, in, in the buildup of, uh, fats, uh, within the, uh, in and, uh, on the artery walls. And the artery is gonna get clogged up, um, by fatty substances, uh, often known as plaques. You may hear that banded around or atheroma. Um, it’s probably more, more the technical world. So this is the, the fatty goo that builds up in your arteries. And it’s, it’s no surprise that it increases the risk of heart and circulatory disease. And you, you will probably, uh, you will guess that that type of thing can lead to heart attack, stroke, and also vascular dementia as well. Um, okay. Is a, which is a very sad disease, but, um, it, it, it raise cholesterol and raise triglycerides are a, a significant risk factor in those areas.

Matt:

Now, I’ll just, you’ve already talked about risk factors and so on and so forth, um, around, uh, the development of atherosclerosis. But I’ll, I will repeat these for a reason, which will probably come out a little bit later in our chat. Okay. But you’ve also got high blood pressure Yes. Can cause, um, atherosclerosis. Again, you covered these really smoking, diabetes, obesity, lack of physical activity and eating saturated fats. All of these things, I think are, are relatively well known to be, um, indicators that, uh, are are bad for you. Yes. Uh, in terms of development of the arterio sclerosis, atherosclerosis, uh, diabetes is actually known as a, an arteriosclerotic accelerator. That’s a mouthful for you.

Kathryn:

I was gonna say, I’m glad you said that instead of me <laugh>.

Matt:

Um, but, uh, you know, effectively it speeds up the harden of the arteries Okay. And its own might, diabetes is one for another day. Um, and I mentioned all of those factors, um, we will get onto a little bit later, but when we, uh, look at what underwriters take into account in terms of levels of cholesterol Yeah. Which isn’t as simple as that anymore, I’m afraid. Um, there are calculators that underwriters use and they take a vast array of factors in before they rate for what could be seen as cholesterol. Yes. But let’s, let’s come on to that a little bit later. Um, so why, why are we, uh, why as under are we interested? Because it is a major risk factor in the development of atherosclerosis, which by definition we’ve just said can lead to heart attack, stroke, and vascular dementia, circulatory diseases, uh, all across the body. So very important for us, and that’s why we’re interested, uh, in it. Yeah. Does that help answer that particular question? Yeah,

Kathryn:

Absolutely. And I think what it comes down to as well is, you know, we’re talking about, as with anything, insurers work off statistics, don’t they? So, you know, there’s, there’s decades worth of statistics about, especially things like high cholesterol and potential links to all of these areas. So when the insurer is looking at this, this person who already, you know, we’re talking about someone who already has high cholesterol, because that’s the reason that we’re, we’re doing the podcast. So there’s then gonna be, it’s not just going to be sort of along the lines of, oh, you know, what’s, what’s the likelihood of potentially developing a hard stack? It’s also, is this person gonna be able to reverse this in some ways? You know, you know, they’ll be, they’ll, there’ll be those factors in the background, won’t they sort of say, know what is the likelihood, what is the percentage of people over time that are able to reverse things like high cholesterol versus the people who actually it develops and oppo potentially people where it just stays quite stable, um, when it comes to actual, like the readings of cholesterol. So in, in my mind, um, now whether or not this is right or on from an insurance point of view, and I’m saying broadly, so anybody listening just

Matt:

Oh, please. Far away,

Kathryn:

<laugh>. So just broadly, we are talking life insurance, critical illness cover, income protection. So broadly, I tend to go by the, obviously I would always do pre-sales research, but in my mind I tend to think cholesterol lower than five, a reading of five is generally okay and five to six, we’re starting to get a little bit of a maybe wanting to look at that a little bit more. And then over six will be seen as high. Is, is that kind of like a Correct sort of like very basic kind of look at, so like thinking of those numbers, if someone were to come to me from my initial mindset before I start doing my research?

Matt:

Yeah, I a absolutely. I think that, um, what underwriters tend to look at, and it’s whether the client, uh, the potential client, uh, actually has the information to hand regarding, um, their cholesterol reading. But really if you look at the calculators, you’re looking at total cholesterol. Yes. Um, which you’ve alluded to it already, but just for, for the sake of this podcast is, is, uh, your HDL high density lipoprotein and your L D l low density lipoprotein added together with the 20 20% reading of triglycerides.

Kathryn:

Yes.

Matt:

So total cholesterol is, um, is what is, is is the important reading Yes. As opposed to cholesterol. Yes. Okay. So, so yes, you’re, I mean, tho tho those readings would be Right. Um, within those readings is, again, you’ve alluded to already, um, underwriters would be looking at, uh, the two, um, subfractions of lipoprotein mm-hmm. Which you mentioned already, HDL and non hdl. Now non HDL is, is is another way of putting L D L.

Kathryn:

Okay.

Matt:

Um, so again, you’ve you’ve said less than five for total cholesterol. Yeah. You would be looking at h hdl. So that’s the good cholesterol that helps take away the LDL <laugh>. Yes. Um, it’d be good to have a positive reading would be over one.

Kathryn:

Yeah.

Matt:

Ldl, uh, uh, or non HDL it’s called as well. Uh, a reading of less than four.

Kathryn:

Yeah.

Matt:

And tri triglycerides a reading of less than 1.7.

Kathryn:

Right.

Matt:

Okay. So those, those are the kind of the, the, the, the ranges that you would look at in terms of being good and, um, a a, a higher HDL counterintuitively maybe is, um, good for you. Yes. Cause that’s the good cholesterol. A raised L D L is not good for you. Cause that’s the bad cholesterol. I don’t that, I hope that makes sense there. It does. Um, um, so again, underwriters would, would, uh, try to get information actually around the HDL or uh, L D L. Now these calculators that, um, that, that are around in the underwriting, um, insurance manuals, these are different depending on the manual that is used.

Kathryn:

Okay.

Matt:

So it is always worth, if you have a client with raised cholesterol, uh, trying a couple of insurers because you will with exactly the same readings, you’ll get different, um, results.

Kathryn:

Okay.

Matt:

Okay. Um,

Kathryn:

I think what’s quite interesting as well, if I just cut in, there’s like, oh yeah, I know we’re talking about like the L D L, the HDL and everything, but I think for quite a lot of people, and especially a lot of advisors, there’s a lot of systems now where we can just put things, what we classes straight through applications. So, you know, we can have it where we can just put in like, what’s the most recent cholesterol reading where it’s 3.4 and it can potentially be underwritten online and just started there. And then, so, so we are mentioning the H D L, the l d triglycerides. But I imagine that that generally is more going to come into play if something like a GP report or a nurse’s screen is done.

Matt:

Yes. Ab ab absolutely. I mean, unless somebody, a client actually knows these readings Yes. And, and, and understands if you like, and in their, in their thinking the front of their mind, HDL and L D L and triglycerides, then you’re likely just to get that one reading and Absolutely, I mean, 3.4 is very, very good as, as we’ve alluded to. And yeah, there is no reason for an underwriter to see that whatsoever. Um, it, when you get higher levels, then depending on the underwriting rules that are within that, uh, particular insurance en engine underwriting engine mm-hmm. Then you may get referred to underwriting or automatic GP r something like that. Yeah. But, um, yeah, no, it, it, it, you know, it’s an inter it’s an interesting fact, at least for me, I suppose that you can go to different, uh, insurers who have different reinsurance underwriting manuals, and this, the system will, can generate different answers depending on what information you give it around hdl.

Kathryn:

Right. In

Matt:

Particular, some, some insurers, um, uh, calculators will credit a good HDL and Right. I hope that’s fairly logical. Cause that’s the good cholesterol. Mm-hmm. Some of those don’t. So again, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s, that’s literally a functionality of the, of, of the system if you want. Right. Um, as opposed to a, an underwriter actually making that judgment. It’s the rule, the automatic underwriting rule that’s built into that calculator, um, knowing which one will give you the credit for a good hdl of course, is, is, is, is one for you and your colleagues.

Kathryn:

Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, so I mean, I think in general, and I suppose with high cholesterol, it is, I know it is there, but I sometimes see that as quite like, uh, almost like a bit of a side thing to something like another condition, like we were saying, like diabetes, um, or potentially, you know, you get high blood and high cholesterol together. And I’m not saying that to sort of say that we wouldn’t, um, you know, I’m not saying that high cholesterol isn’t a condition in itself, it’s just, it’s often combined with other things. And I think a lot of the time it’s that combination with other things that tends to be what can sometimes n need that e really extra bit of research. I mean, no matter what, we still have to research the high cholesterol. Um, but I do think, you know, it’s, it’s often something else that’s linked that tends to be, um, sorry, what would be considered probably more like the higher risk aspect of things. And that leads us on to, um, what I find really interesting in it’s known again, so I’m gonna gonna make sure I try and say this in one go without failing. Um, but familial hypercholesterolemia added it. Oh,

Matt:

Kathryn <laugh>, thank you.

Kathryn:

Um, I do that on my training cast, and I’m always just like, right, just bear with me. Everybody just want a second to prepare for this. Um, and then I go into like a, a phrase of like saying it like five times in a world because I’m just so proud of myself,

Matt:

<laugh> <laugh>.

Kathryn:

Um, but if we have that now, that is something that can really change the dynamic of what we can maybe get in terms of underwriting. So can you take us through when it is more of like the genetic aspect of it, please?

Matt:

Yeah. Ab ab, absolutely. Okay. What is as, um, we can, um, like an educated guest with, with the term familial? Um, it is an inherited condition, um, where cholesterol can be extremely high. And certainly I’ve seen cholesterol readings of, uh, up around 15 mm-hmm. <affirmative> 1415 if, if not higher teens, uh, in my time as an underwriter, I have to say, that’s usually an historic reading, not one that comes out from a, um, a test, uh, that’s done for the insurance exam or whatever. Um, but I think the important thing to say here is that, uh, it can be treated okay. Um, you are always nearly always gonna be on a statin, uh, which helps, um, reduce the cholesterol. Um, and obviously you need to need to pay special attention to your diet as well with, with familial. So I think somebody with familial hypercholesterolemia looking for life insurance and the condition has been adequately treated and the leadings of coming down to normal or near as normal, um, then you should be able to get life insurance.

Matt:

Uh, critical illness I think is gonna be a bit of an individual consideration, if I can use that Wonderful, uh, term, very much dependent on the case as a whole, in other words. Yes. Um, and income protection that way as well. I, I, I, I think now we’ve, we’ve talked about the fact that it’s inherited condition and quite what does that mean really? But it’s, it is actually caused by, um, I think the common term is a gene alteration, uh, which is passed down by one or both parents, which means that the, uh, child, a child would’ve a 50 50 chance of, of, um, having that gene passed them. And then for getting familial or having familial hypercholesterolemia. And I say about gene alteration, I think for me is more common expression would be gene mutation. Okay. Um, but wouldn’t the same, let’s say for the sake of argument and, and what it does, it, the, the change in the genes actually prevents the body from, from rid itself, um, of l ldl. So that’s just fact that’s, that’s, uh, bad cholesterol. Yeah. Um, and if, if the, uh, our listeners don’t know really, cholesterol’s actually produced in the liver. Now, I’ll, I’ll talk about that in a minute. But obviously if your body cannot rid itself of LDL in particular, then you were going to get the fur enough of the arteries at some stage or another that we spoke about earlier, and therefore having the risk of heart stroke and, and dementia. So these levels,

Kathryn:

Can I po potentially do a quick segue here? Just something’s popped into my mind and I’m sure think the answers no, but it’s just with you saying there about how the, this genetic, you know, basically the genetic aspect of it has changed the body to not be able to remove Yeah. Body substance. So could it then technically, oh, not technically, but is it potentially considered a bit like, um, I want to say like a bit like an autoimmune condition, just in my mind, I’m thinking type one diabetes, their body is genetically changed to so that their pancreas doesn’t develop insulin. So with, with familial hypercholesterolemia, is it, is it an autoimmune condition or is it not classified as that? Am I just making links where there aren’t links?

Matt:

I do not think it’s an autoimmune condition. No, it’s not. Um, I believe a condition where the body starts to attack itself.

Kathryn:

Of course. Yeah. No, that’s it. Yep.

Matt:

I would say, yeah. Had

Kathryn:

A moment.

Matt:

<laugh>. No, no, no. I think it’s, I think it’s important that these things are raised. Absolutely. Hundred percent. So I, I believe it’s not an autoimmune immune. Okay. Um, this, this is genetic link, which, uh, is kind of fascinating for me. Um, really it’s one of the reasons why I love underwriting so much. But, uh, I’ve just mentioned the cholesterols generated in the liver and it’s, it’s carried, carried around, um, in the, in the bloodstream. If you think about it as a gulf, like a little, it’s like a, it is a cell, okay. But if I think of a little golf ball, the, the center is your fat and the protein is the, is the outer coating of the golf ball. So those float around in the liver. Um, and, uh, cholesterol is, you know, we talk about it as a bad thing. Raised cholesterol, of course, is a bad thing.

Matt:

Having cholesterol is incredibly important to the function of the body. <laugh>. Yeah. I think, I think I need to get that one over. Yeah. And it’s a key component in, in, um, cell structure. Um, the outer, if I can call it layer of the cell, uh, cholesterol is very, very important in, in creating or, uh, maintaining the shape of the cell. So it is, it is a very valuable part of, um, human metabolism without any shadow of a doubt. So just, just moving on there. So the liver, um, has these little things, uh, called receptors, l d l receptors that lie on the surface of the liver. And, um, they take l d l outta the bloodstream as the pause is through the liver. Okay. Now, what happens there with familial is that there are not, it, the body does not make enough D receptors to take the LDL outta the body.

Kathryn:

Okay.

Matt:

Okay. That’s, I believe the most, the more, the most common gene defect if you want, um, or mutation. Now, there’s something else called, and again, Katherine, we’re going to ask you next, next time we talk to pronounce this one.

Kathryn:

Okay. Um,

Matt:

But the A P O B gene, which is an APO lipoprotein, that’s not too bad. Is it really

Kathryn:

Lipoprotein?

Matt:

Yeah. That’s, that’s not too, too bad. <laugh>. That’s cheating

Kathryn:

<laugh>. Just say straight away. Absolutely.

Matt:

Absolutely. Yeah. Lipoprotein B um, where, uh, the, the LDL receptors can’t actually bind onto the, onto the LDL itself.

Kathryn:

Okay.

Matt:

So you’ve got, you’ve got the LDL receptors that are not, not enough of them. This is where the binding property of the LDL receptor is, is, um, uh, is hindered in doing its job. Yeah. And then there’s this last one, which I’m not going to pro try and pro, um, uh, to pronounce, but I’ll, okay. I, I will say it’s the PC SK nine, which is an enzyme.

Kathryn:

Okay. Um, we’ll just go with the acronym. Yeah, that’s good.

Matt:

Now this is where, do you know Absolutely. I think it’s best on this one. Now this is, this is where your autoimmune point could actually maybe come into play. Ooh. That was me saying, no, it wasn’t. Um, now I have to say, I’m reading my notes a little bit on this particular one, but it is, that’s where your LDL receptors are broken down by the liver. So it is attacking

Kathryn:

Okay.

Matt:

Itself. So maybe there’s not immune component in there somewhere along the line. I will, I’ll have to leave that to the, um, the, the highly technical people to, to let us know about that Absolut. Absolutely. So, so your, um, your, your genes and what a surprise to us all, I think play a vital part here. And those defects, as I say, can in fact, uh, it can impact the, the LDL receptors in one way or another. There’s not enough of them. They can stop the binding of the receptor against the, the free flowing l d and yeah, the th one is where the liver actually starts to break down the LDL receptors themselves. So they won’t have any at all. But that’s rare that, that last one is pretty rare to say the least. Um, so, so that, that’s, that’s the kind of the, the, the technical wherewithal about, um, familial hypercholesterolemia.

Matt:

Um, I think the good thing is here, and I know when I was, again, I’ve got mention, I’m going to mention it again, much younger than I am today in terms of my, uh, and writing career, then this was seen as a, um, very, very bad sign in terms of mortality and morbidity. I think in terms of, uh, pure life insurance medicine has evolved to, to an extent where certainly, uh, people who have this condition, uh, they, they should and it’s controlled. That’s get that, that right? Yes. And there are no signs of some of the complications that can arise that we’ve, you know, we’ve spoken about in terms of the atherosclerosis. And these people can be insured, which I think is absolutely great, which is absolutely great news. Does, does that, do you think, um, that gives Pence the picture of familial hypocholesterolemia for you?

Kathryn:

Yeah, no, I, I think it does. Yeah. It’s, I mean, sort of very, taking it back down to basics, it’s um, you know, obviously not brilliant to have all that technical information cause it is really useful <laugh>. Um, but you know, I’m just like thinking, if we go back to basics, uh, for me, the high cholesterolemia as an advisor, that stands out to me to say, right, this means that we might have a different outcome to what I was expecting in terms of if it was in a sense, I wanna say just, but I wanna put like little bunny ears around the, just to say just high cholesterol. Cause then there is more of a genetic predisposition to, it could be harder to actually change. Obviously very much harder to change lifestyle factors. Um, to be able to counteract it. And again, then means that we probably have had, um, a stronger likelihood of family medical history in terms of, um, heart attacks, um, strokes, diabetes, and the diabetes doesn’t always come up in the question set with insurers, but certainly the, um, the heart attack and the stroke side of things.

Kathryn:

I always think something that’s interests me on this. And I think it’s a, you know, we do get this said to us at times as well. And there’s certainly, there’s not a, there’s not a right or wrong answer to this. I don’t think it is just the way that it is, but it’s, it can be quite difficult. I can’t it, because with some people, they’re really on top of being on top of the health and going and maybe getting like the blood pressure, the cholesterol check, things like that. Cause I wanna make sure they’re okay. And then they might find out that they’ve got a bit of high cholesterol, which is brilliant to find out. So they can counteract it. But then it means that we can sometimes then have an influence on the insurances. And then you might have someone else who isn’t wanting to, it isn’t bothered about doing these tests, isn’t taking care, not necessarily they’re not taking care of the health, but you know, they’re not as engaged with wanting to keep an eye on these things.

Kathryn:

They could have high cholesterol, far greater than the, the other person, but just be able to get the application and go forward. And it, it wouldn’t even, it wouldn’t influence the, the politics that just completely unawares. And, and I know that that goes the same for so many different health conditions. And I, I certainly aren’t saying anything that, that it’s wrong or anything the way that it works because, you know, ultimately insurers have to go by the information that’s there. The underwriters must go by the information that’s there. And, and there’s no way of counteracting that unless everybody suddenly starts having to have medicals all the time. Um, absolutely. Yeah. And actually very, very, uh, I’m going to my little bit of a, a nerd side of me. I’m thinking of a Stargate episode. There was a Stargate episode where everyone had like little implants in them and it constantly monitored the health and everything.

Kathryn:

And I’m thinking, I dunno if that’d be a good or bad thing insurance-wise actually, you know, <laugh>, I thought that that’s, it could be really good for someone, not so good for, but, uh, no. Anyway, e bit of a segue and just, um, but no, I think, you know, for, for people, you know, they might start think, oh, you know, sort of like, should I be getting this checked or not? And I think ultimately, no matter what, insurances are important, but ultimately health must come first with anything. So, cause again, we do have it sometimes where people say, well I was thinking of getting this checked out, but not enough. I’ve had my insurance. And the thing is that as soon as that query is there, then it is something you’re thinking about. So really you should probably get it checked. Um, and you, you know, don’t mess about with getting the test, you know, for your health or anything like that. You know, you need to make sure that you’re, you’re as, um, that you know exactly what’s going on with everything.

Matt:

Absolutely. And I think as well here, um, if you have a raised cholesterol to the level, the way that, um, uh, would, would worry an underwriter if, if I can use that term, um, then it is far easier just to get it sorted out. And statins are amazing drugs. Yes. They really, really are. I know there’s some side effects on some people, a few people mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they’re amazing drugs. And then if there’s a, if you have a concern about the insurance, then just go, go back to your insurer three months or whatever after. Yeah. You’ve got it sorted out and you are very likely to get standard drains.

Kathryn:

Absolutely.

Matt:

You know, I I, I completely utterly agree with you. Sometimes, um, it can be a little strange. I think that people who do look after themselves can pick up a rating, um, not necessarily for cholesterol cause they look after themselves and it’s normal. Yeah. Then you are gonna get standard rates. Uh, but there, you know, there are many other diseases I suppose I could, uh, would come to mind. Um, but yeah, you’re absolutely right. You have to look at your own, um, situation. Um, far, far better to to, to get the issue, whatever it is that’s sorted out.

Kathryn:

Yeah. I suppose the thing is as well is if you’ve, if you’ve got the high cholesterol as you say high cholesterol to a point where an underwriter will be worried, then it’s probably that you are quite a risk for heart attack and stroke. So yes, just get the test done, get yourself sorted, you know, start taking steps to try and reduce it because ultimately, you know, whether or not the insurance is there or not. It, it’s your health at the end of the day.

Matt:

I mean, you know, you, you’ve got high blood pressure as well. That’s another classic example. Yeah. Um, of, of the same type of thing. Once your blood pressure is controlled, you know, you might, you might go along to your surgery 180 over a hundred or something like that. Mm-hmm. And insurer will think, oh, how are we gonna deal with this? But if you get it sorted out, it’ll get standard rates.

Kathryn:

Yeah. I was gonna say, so quickly before I start going into, sorry, potential terms and everything, cause I’m, I’m picking up on you saying about the standard rates. Um, so something that I do, so I just did some of my training this morning and part of it was about heart attacks and things and um, what I, the things I say to advisors is if you hear statin and you’re not hearing anything about that there’s been a heart attack or a stroke or that there’s high cholesterol, do some digging. You know, because whilst people sort of like say, oh the doctors just throw out statins at people. Yes and no, you know, if, you know, it needs to be a reason for doing it. Yeah. And you know, certainly if I hear anything that has statin at the end, cause there’s lots of different names. So Atorvastatin is one, simvastatin lots of different ones.

Kathryn:

Um, as soon as you hear statin, there’s something going on, cholesterol or HeartWise. So just do some digging because if not, you’re not getting the whole picture. Um, so my next thing, sorry again to ask the end of the podcast was to ask you about what would you expect in terms of the differences. So let’s say well controlled, um, cholesterol, it’s a high cholesterol because I, I don’t think either of us can probably make good, um, suggestions about what might be possible if someone does have, um, unstable cholesterol. Very, very high figures because ultimately we could be talking percentage ratings right. Up to um, declines depending upon the situation. But yeah, let’s say somebody who’s got high cholesterol is in a good range. Now yes, they’re on medication, but there’s been no, there’s been no changes for a good few months or anything. So, so what would you be expecting on the life insurance, the critical illness and the income protection side of things? In, in terms of, um, what kind of terms would you generally be expecting and I do appreciate and just revoke, cate, everyone we’re talking just about high cholesterol, nothing else whatsoever in terms of a risk factor or anything. So purely from the high cholesterol side of things.

Matt:

Okay. You, I mean certainly life, um, with the factors or the lack of factors, which you’ve just mentioned. Pure life insurance, um, most cases come outta standardized.

Kathryn:

Yeah.

Matt:

Um, for critical illness, I think I’m gonna have to caveat slightly down to potentially the age of the individual here. Yes. Um, if you, and the challenge an underwriter has is that let’s say a 50 year old, how long have they actually had high cholesterol?

Kathryn:

Yeah.

Matt:

Okay. And the longer that your cholesterol is high and it is not treated, the greater risk of arterial sclerosis and complications thereof come into play. Okay. If you’ve got a high cholesterol and forget familial high cholesterol for a minute, if you’re a young person, let’s say in their thirties, um, then obviously the, well I say obviously it is likely that your high cholesterol hasn’t been at a level which would start causing new problems later on. Yeah. So for, for um, for critical illness, it’s a little bit, dare I say, I’ll use that expression again I’ve already said is individual consideration. Yeah. But I would say depending on how high is high and how good your, your blood pressure is, you know, a non-smoker, your height and weight are all Okay. I don’t see why you shouldn’t get standard two. Okay. And for ip, I’ll throw that one in.

Kathryn:

Okay. No, that’s really, really good to know.

Matt:

Does, does, does that Yeah. Fits your own experience by the way. Not, I don’t mean personally, I meant your, your clients. I

Kathryn:

Was gonna say my cholesterol is annoyingly good, I have to say me and have many health MLTs. We also have a competition as to who’s got the best cholesterol. Oh. Um, I’ve, I’ve had quite a few times it’s said to me I’ve never seen someone with such a little cholesterol. And I do wear that as a bit of a badge of pride. <laugh> pride actually, which is

Matt:

Katherine do you remember that Cho having some cholesterol is very good for you. I know, I

Kathryn:

Know, I know. Well they told me it was good <laugh>

Matt:

<laugh> don’t go too low please.

Kathryn:

No, I know. Um, the, um, so I think it’s, it’s quite difficult cause Yes. You know, I think there is potential for standards. I think, so one of the things as many people who listen to this know is, you know, a lot of the time when we’re speaking to people they do tend to be people who’ve got um, quite a few health complications. Yeah. Um, so we would usually be seeing for high cholesterol, we would usually see it’s um, cured that there’s been some kind of complication with the heart of stroke or diabetes. So it does influence it a lot more in terms of getting it away from standard terms on the personal side of things. And I just certainly thought of another thing that I should really make arises aware of and just prepare them for. So just in case I have had it quite a few times where I’ve been saying to people, do you have any medication, any health conditions at all?

Kathryn:

And I always think it’s really important to make sure that you also, when I’m, when I’m doing my pre-sales research, um, to also just double check like any then if they say no, but check any medications or any appointments coming up or anything because I have had it before where people have said to me, I’ve got this for blood pressure. And I’ll say, oh, so you have high blood pressure. And they go or high cholesterol and say No, I don’t, it’s normal levels. And so they don’t actually, it’s been quite, it’s happened more times than, than, but people actually don’t realize and they don’t realize to say I have high cholesterol but it’s medicated and I’m now at normal levels. They just go, no, my cholesterol’s fine. I’ve not got any issues there because to them the reading is now within a normal level.

Matt:

Yep. To totally agree with that, with that statement. Um, that that’s a, that I think getting to the bottom of it lies with the skill and experience of the advisor. And this is, I believe is exactly what you’re talking about there. There’s little, little red flag is possibly overstating it, but yeah,

Kathryn:

I feel it is some tidbits to give to other advisor when you do your fact fine. Just make sure you’ve got a question in there that says just double checking. Cause the last thing you want to do as an advisor, I know it’s asking more stuff at the start, but the last thing you want to do is to do everything. Build up your recommendation, put all your effort in. Yeah. And you’ll have done a really good job cause I know, I know advisors do. Yeah. And then you get to the app and then something comes up and you have to immediately stop and pause and redo all your research, redo your recommendation or you’re just gonna do a stab in the dark and just go look, I might as well just submit it through anyway and just see what happens. Which that’s not a good scenario to be in.

Matt:

No, no. Totally agree.

Kathryn:

I have a client for us to potentially have a, have a look at. So for this person, so it’s just a bit of a case study for everybody. So, um, speaking to somebody, they were mid twenties, non-smoker, B m I was fine. Um, generally everything was fine. Um, but they did have a history of familial hypercholesterolemia and see I managed to do it again, I wanted to say it right, <laugh> and for this person, um, for this person they were on, uh, medication for cholesterol and the cholesterol was under five. Now from what I believe, um, cause this wasn’t my clients, not everybody that speak about in these case studies on the podcast aren’t mine, but they are somebody from Kira. Um, I’m not sure I, I don’t think they necessarily had had high cholesterol, but I think it was more of like a preventative, um, sort of like situation.

Kathryn:

So I’m, I’m, I’m not completely sure on that, but that was my inkling from when I spoke to the advisor. Um, so, uh, in terms of the options, so we did, we’re able to do life in critical illness cover decreasing 187,000 over 35 years for around 31 pounds per month. Uh, which is good cause obviously we’re saying that there can be issues with getting critical illness cover at times. So really good that we had that one there. And then in terms of the income protection, roughly 1200 pound per month, there was a three month deferred period. It was full claim, um, to the anticipated retirement age and the premium for that was a little less than 12 pound per month. So I think, you know, in terms of like income protection as well, just as a lot of people talk about how expensive it is and, and a lots of time it is more expensive than life insurance on its own.

Kathryn:

Um, but there, you know, we’ve got just a little less than 12 pound per month that’s guaranteed premium locked in now right up until the anticipated retirement age. And um, and I think that’s pretty good. Yeah. Um, especially as well with the history as well. Yeah. So, um, so, so yeah, so just some nice examples hopefully there for people to sort of like give that inkling to just sort of say as always, just because there’s may be medical history there for the person, for the family doesn’t always mean we’re gonna end up with city premiums or exclusions here, there and everywhere. And it’s always worth treating everybody, as you say Matt, individual consideration advise is exactly the same. Every person you speak to reset yourself and go back to thinking, wait, this is someone brand new com. Every single person’s a complete different mix of situations and um, and different outcomes could happen at the presale.

Matt:

Yeah, I, I totally agree with you. Particularly with things like cholesterol.

Kathryn:

Yeah, absolutely.

Matt:

You, you’ve, you’ve, yeah. Nailed it on the head so to speak.

Kathryn:

Thank you. Oh, thank you obviously for joining me Matt. Thank you for everybody for listening to Matt’s insights. Next time we’re gonna be back with Ruth Gilbert and she is going to be talking to us about the importance of trusts and her work in developing the payout planners, uh, with insurers. If you’d like a reminder of the next episode, please drop me a message on social media or visit the website practical hi from protection dot code at uk. And don’t forget if you’ve listened to this as part of your work, you can claim a C P D certificate on the website too. Thanks to our sponsors, the Okta members. Thank you again Matt, and speak to you soon.

Matt:

My pleasure. You too. Take care.

Kathryn:

You too.